Home » Philosophy, business of art
Should you be a Sucker or an A-Hole – You Decide
“Pick yourself up, dust yourself off. Start all over again.” Peggy Lee
Working in the business of art is like riding on the Incredible Hulk roller coaster at Adventure Island.
Slowly you ascend the big, steep hill, it’s scary and exciting and it makes your stomach do flips. You reach the top, and now in a state of euphoria, you’re high and happy. Then BOOM! You’re dropped to the bottom like a rock.
This is how our roller coaster ride was yesterday. We began our day at the top, high from the good news that Drew’s new Brophy Chuck Taylor Collection has sold over 40,000 pairs to retailers already. Nordstrom and Journey’s was at the top of the list, two really cool stores to have your stuff in.
Our emotional high ended abruptly when we received a very upsetting phone call from our camper van client. And BOOM! Our emotions dropped to the bottom like a heavy stack of outdated Yellow Pages.
Last year we did a deal to have Drew paint rental vans. We quoted $1,200 each. They said, hey, if you drop your price we’ll guarantee you volume. After going back and forth, we agreed to drop our price to a ridiculously low $800 in exchange for their promise of having Drew paint their first 50 vans over the course of a year. We put it in writing, because I’m a freak about written art agreements.
As an aside here, I have to admit that I’m embarrassed that we agreed to have Drew paint vans for so cheap. But for Drew it wasn’t all about money. It was a challenge and he was excited to design a fleet of vans and experiment with his paintings on a large canvas. He viewed this as a partnership, where we could help this new company grow through our connections and there would be some exposure for us because the vans would be like big, driving billboards.
Drew painted the first ten vans and they look incredible, so much so that a two page article about Drew painting one of the vans has been featured in an art magazine in the U.K. (We even hired a photographer so the magazine would have pro photos.)
Back to the disappointing phone call: Our contact at the company, who has become a good friend, called Drew and said “Look, Mate, I’ve got loads of artists calling and saying that they will paint vans for only $500. I’m going to line them up to take over, unless you can drop your price.”
And that put us in the position of having to choose between being a SUCKER or an A-HOLE.
SUCKER’S RESPONSE: “Sure, I’m so desperate to keep your business and drop my already super-low price by 40%, even though we have this agreed to in writing. Here, take this jar of Vaseline…”
A-HOLE’S RESPONSE: “Look, ‘mate’ (sarcastically), you agreed to the price and the number of paintings, we have it in writing, and if you don’t come through I’ll see you in court.”
Neither choice is appealing to me.
The fact that these artists were undercutting Drew, and our client was going to break our agreement just to save money, made me so angry and depressed that I promptly went to Fred’s market and bought two bottles of red wine. I felt betrayed. Yes, I took it personally. Integrity is important to me. Drew and I are very careful to keep our promises, over-deliver, show up on time and do top quality work.
And now all that we’ve done to help this company just doesn’t matter, because a few artists decided to do it for cheaper. Maybe they don’t need to earn a living, maybe they’re desperate or maybe painting is just their hobby. It doesn’t matter, because they are ruining it for their own kind. They aren’t only hurting us, they are hurting ALL ARTISTS by lowering the bar and continuing the starving artist cycle.
You can’t paint a van for $500 and make a profit. There’s too much work involved. There’s planning and hours of designing before you even show up with your 30 cans of paint. Then there’s the actual process of painting the van, in the hot sun, for hours of labor. It’s just not worth it.
I asked the client “Did Drew do something wrong? Did he not keep his promises? Were you not happy with the media coverage and the video we produced for free and the artwork?” And he said, “No, I love working with Drew. He’s a good friend. He’s done a great job and I love his art. It’s just about the money.”
Wow. And so, Drew and I had the option to lower our price. We talked about it. Drew didn’t want to let go of this project. It means a lot to him and he’s emotionally attached to it. He wants to finish what he started. But we can’t undervalue his work, because if we do, everyone else will. And I predict that eventually some desperate artist will call our client and say “I’ll do it for only $400” and the cycle will continue.
There comes a point where you have to ask yourself “what am I worth” and if your clients don’t value the work you do then it’s time to walk. No matter how hard it is for you.
And, in my typical “I take 100% responsibility for everything that happens to me” manner, I have to ask myself what I could have done to avoid this.
So far I’m coming up empty on the answer. In my book, a deal is a deal – you don’t make a deal with someone and then go back and ask for more than agreed to mid-stream. But I’m sure there’s something else, maybe I’m taking this too hard. Maybe it’s okay to re-neg on your contracts if it’s going to save you a bunch o’ dough. I don’t know.
I don’t just blame the client here. They have to make a decision that’s best for them. It’s just about the money. That’s all. It’s not personal. (Though I feel like I got punched in the stomach.)
It’s partly the other artists that create this atmosphere – they are hurting their own kind by lowering the bar to where prices are so low that you can’t live off of your work. And then you starve. And we wonder why art isn’t valued…
Or, maybe I could look at it in a positive, loving your universe kind of way: By stepping out of this deal, we are allowing other artists an opportunity for work as well. And maybe that’s not such a bad thing. Maybe that’s a beautiful thing. Spreading the work around. Sharing it. And I can live with that.
You see where this roller coaster ride takes me?!
“There can be no deep disappointment where there is not deep love.” Martin Luther King, Jr.
Maria xxoo
PS: If you’re wondering if we chose to be the Sucker or the A-Hole: We went with the latter (minus the lawsuit. I hate lawsuits.)
UPDATE TO THIS POST (On March 9, 2010): Just wanted to let you all know, since this post brought about some very STRONG feelings for many people, that we have somewhat resolved this issue with the rental van company.
Here’s what happened: After I gave our contact at the company a good yelling (I don’t get mad often, but when I do, look out – and maybe I shouldn’t have handled it that way), Drew wrote a letter to the partners letting them know, in a professional manner, how disappointed we were and what we brought to the table with our experience, work ethic and media connections.
One of the partners wrote back and said that they still wanted to work with us and they will continue to pay the agreed upon amount. The only thing that changed – we are going to have less vans to paint. But I’m okay with this – I’m going to drop it and let it go. Time to move my emotions onto something new. I consider this a slightly happy ending.
Where’s the lesson in this? Remain professional (thanks to Drew, not me!) and do your best to work it out in a civilized manner. It may end up okay after all. (As long as they don’t read this post!)
Similar Posts:
- The cheapskates line to artists: But it will be Good Promotion for you!
- The Art of the Deal – Feel the Fear and Make the Deal Anyway
- Fear Giving a Price Quote? The art of the Deal Memo
Gloriart
26. Feb, 2010
maria n drew, this is so bad, so sad, just incredible that it all comes down to dollars, and people r so willing 2 sacrifice future business, future relationships, etc. for the almighty dollar. no one can do what drew does. that’s what i believe. no one can do what i do as an artist. the vendor must adhere to the written agreement. this is soooo not fair and illegal to boot. hold him to the contract. it will cost him more (i’m thinking) for him to break the contract. sometimes u gotta b the a-hole. arrogance and a-holism aren’t fun in the art world, but that’s what it’s gotta be sometimes. i was just offered by a potential client to “rent” a piece of my original artwork. i refused, siting that it devalues my work, and if he wanted to buy the framed piece, it would cost $350. people always have money for what they really WANT. the artists who are undercutting drew are desperate. it’s a sad state of affairs. STICK 2 your IDEALS and VALUES. it’s all you have, sadly.
Maria Brophy
26. Feb, 2010
Thanks Gloria. One thing I failed to mention in this article – it’s not that Drew is the best artist or will do the best art. Because there are so many talented people out there, and we wouldn’t imply that Drew does the best art. But a deal is a deal regardless.
Dustan Baker
26. Feb, 2010
Wow, unbelievable. I remember all the early press on these vans. It is such a great concept. I did wonder how much Drew’s work would cost. My guess was around $5k. So for $800 they had a real bargain. One day paint and body or Earl Schieb can cost more than $500. The real bummer is that the Vans are not going to look good. This will ultimately hurt the business. When you look at all the cost involved in a vans, is saving $300 really anything? Crap art is a bad choice. a wrap or stickers would be better.
Dana Phillips
26. Feb, 2010
I don’t believe it is you or Drew being the A-hole here. This person who is your friend should have never even considered coming to you, with an agreement in place, and told you he is going to go with someone else if Drew doesn’t cave. Drew obviously has talent that people want more of, and envy. You can’t lessen him, his work, or your work because someone else is cheaper. Yes, they will have cheaper painted vans, but they won’t have cheaper painted vans by Drew Brophy. Remember, it’s not the paint, it’s the painter and his vision which is the real value here. The nerve of that guy to have even thought this would be ok. There will always be somebody willing to sell out and rip Drew off, but there will also always be those who REALLY value his work- don’t forget Chuck Taylor!
Tell him the can have their $500 vans, after they pay Drew what he was promised! They suck plain and simple.
Maria Brophy
26. Feb, 2010
@Dana and @Dustan thanks both of you for your support! I didn’t want to start an angry fest here – really I wanted to tell the story because sometimes, no matter how good you are or what you give, there’s always someone else willing to undercut you or cut you out. And that’s a sad reality.
The good news is, we are wide open to take on other new, fun projects in place of this one. Not sure what that is yet, but I’ll let you know once we do!
PS: On Selling Out: It would have been selling out for us to agree to the lower price. I meant to add that to the article. Selling Out is when you do that which you don’t believe in (or which undervalues your principles).
Henri
26. Feb, 2010
Wow that sucks, but I definitely think you went with the right option. Giving in when you have a contract is a no-no in my book.
I’m happy you got it all sorted out without having to go to court. Another great article, you’re on a roll.
I really enjoy hearing about your personal experiences
Chris B
26. Feb, 2010
Maria,
Not being a working artist I guess I have a slightly different take on this than some, but here goes:
1. ” I don’t just blame the client here. They have to make a decision that’s best for them. It’s just about the money.”
No, it’s not about the money – it’s about business integrity. You can’t blame them for TRYING (I guess), but once Drew said, in effect, “No, man, I was already giving you a break by lowering the price at the beginning because of the coolness of the project and our relationship.”, then they should “cowboy up” and honor the original agreement they signed. That’s just business – sometimes you make a great deal and sometimes you could have done better, but …
2. “It’s partly the other artists that create this atmosphere…” Yes, it is, but if they want to undervalue themselves to try and get the business, then that is their choice. And you don’t know WHY they are doing it – maybe the landlord is on their case and they just gave their kids the last hot dog in the fridge and they need some cash like NOW. Or they are willing to treat the project as a loss-leader (an item you sell for below cost to bring in traffic) for the visibility – which could actually be worth quite a bit here.
So, yeah, the situation you are left with blows big time and you are in a no-win position, so Drew makes his choice of which option will cause the two of you LESS stomach-churning regret every time you think of it in the future and you go from there.
My choice would be to tell the businessman to do what he feels he has to do and then suggest that a “gee, we’re sorry we’re gonna be asshats” token payment toward the broken contract might be nice gesture? ;p
Maria
27. Feb, 2010
Chris, thanks for your viewpoint. I should have given the chance to buy out of the agreement, and then no hard feelings. But I’m real sure they wouldn’t have.
Erika
26. Feb, 2010
Nope, you’re not a sucker or an a-hole…you did the right thing by walking away instead of letting someone devalue the art and you were wise to let them out of a contract instead of letting a legal battle consume your time and energy. You have more positive and profitable things to do.
I have to wonder, though, if you weren’t such good friends with this guy, would you have handled this deal differently and would he have dared to breach the contract? There is something to be said for keeping a slight distance from your business contacts.
(On a side note, $800 is far too little for that kind of a job. And on another side note, I assume your contact is an Aussie…it’s so damn hard to get mad at them when they pull out that fun accent.)
Danny Cruz
27. Feb, 2010
Maria, this is great. I actually read it twice. Same goes for the business of graphic design. Everybody and their mother wants to be a creative designer. In order to compete, they lower the bar just the same! This makes it hard for everybody.
Today I had a number of encouraging situations arise, then one big let down late afternoon when I got denied a big revenue opportunity through a good advertising contact. I can relate.
Maria Brophy
27. Feb, 2010
Danny, it’s a bummer you had that big let down. It’s just part of being an entrepreneur, no matter what kind of business we are in. I have to learn to grow a thicker skin! I hope it all works out for you. Life is still good!
Archan Mehta
27. Feb, 2010
Maria;
Today, I was having a good day, and then I had to read this post!
Of course, I am not blaming you. In fact, thanks for sharing your personal stories. We appreciate learning about your personal life, but it made me feel really lousy.
You have no idea how sad I feel right now. And I hate to admit this, but I feel a bit cranky too.
How come doctors, lawyers and engineers make six figure salaries (or more)? Plus, they have fringe benefits. And if you have an MBA, you can also mint money in the private sector. If you are a successful entrepreneur, sky’s the limit: Ted Tuner, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Richard Branson, and the list goes on and on and on and on.
And yet, art is considered ridiculous and artists are laughed at in our society. Art is a frivolous activity and all artists are misfits and crazy people. And the sooner they join the socio-economic mainstream–and follow conventions–well, the better for them.
Oh, man, gimme a freaking break here, will you Fred and Wilma?
If you ask me, come on, dude, $800 bucks in a ridiculous amount of money for Drew’s art. This is daylight robbery. Of course, artists should not starve, but look at how society treats its creative people.
I have no solution but to request you not to get into such contracts to begin with. Just try to approach clients who don’t play games. Some people will take you for a ride citing market fluctuations.
Also, don’t you think it’s about time you explored other nations? Why try to sell Art in a country like America which treats art and artists like lepers?
Maybe it is time to explore your potential in other nations where art and artists are actually valued: just a suggestion. Maybe countries which have a long history. How about Mexico? South America?
Just a few ideas here. Also, I am sorry you and Drew have to put up with this obnoxious situation.I will pray for your entire family today.
Listen, life is difficult. Don’t let this get to you, hear me? Keep your chin up, and you will get through this, one step at a time. And we are here to support you. That’s why we read your blog. Cheers to you!
Maria Brophy
27. Feb, 2010
Archan – Yeah, sorry to write a bummer post. But it’s part of the business of an entrepreneur, and it’s worth telling. The good news is, this is an anomaly – I usually don’t have these sorts of things happen! Now, go cheer up!
deni
27. Feb, 2010
there will always be undercutters in any kind of business where you sell something. but you have to take heart because you have something they don’t have – a strong brand name, which you continue to build each day. i think in addition to drew’s top quality work, this is your strongest thing obviously retail stores agree. this company will be missing out on the value of drew’s brand – because if possible – you should deny them any right to use his van art in any future promotional material. it wouldn’t be right for them to use his art to promo when the bulk of their fleet doesn’t and they reneged on their deal. have you thought of asking them for a share of rentals, if drew is determined to finish them, and were to concede to doing it cheaper i would at least demand some kind of future share in profit. but would you trust them to even honor that? i dunno.
Dennis T Panzik
27. Feb, 2010
When I seen Drew working on one of the vans at the surf expo, and figured you had got to use it to drive out east, I thought that’s a cool gig. Wonder if there’s van rentals around here I can get in on. My work is very detailed and I have good idea about how much time it takes me. For a full van, I’d charge 8 grand or better, easy.
A local renown airbrush artist I know would surely charge 20 grand or more. Hell, he’s gotten 20 grand just for a bagger motorcycle. Of course that includes fab and body work, base painting, etc. but still…
And I know local cycle shop, that had a rig done. I mean a BIG rig. The graphics on it were relatively simple. They had a local artist paint it for 50 grand. They thought about going with vinyl wraps but they wanted 70 grand to wrap it and as anyone should know paint is far superior and lasting than wraps!
Anyways, I guess if I was in your shoes, I’d of tried to work a deal. I know it’s good advertisement on a van and all. I know lawsuits suck big ones. Maybe raise the price back up and say hey, when ya want or need me, you know where I stand.
Besides, with the ones he’s done,
how long till someone may request his art?
Mike Patterson
27. Feb, 2010
What good is a contract if one side won’t honour it?
I think you made one error.. and that is calling yourself.. or the person that demands the contract be honoured an A-Hole.. because the truth is, the person that re-negged.. is the A-Hole.
If you don’t like paying $800 to do the work.. don’t sign the deal with the artist for it. Plain and Simple… I also don’t believe that there is an wall bricked with excuses between being a friend and doing business. That’s a cop out and anyone that plays that card is the A-Hole..
I think you were cool to walk away with a lawsuit, but I’m afraid were I you, there could be no referring to this guy as a friend any longer.
Maria Brophy
27. Feb, 2010
Mike: Not sure how strong the friendship is anymore. But there’s always a chance that they will come back and say “we’ve thought about it and decided to do the right thing.” And I’d welcome that and forgive and forget. Thanks for pointing out who the A-Hole is! It’s an expression that Drew and I use when we are backed into a corner and there’s no way out….
Ely
27. Feb, 2010
Good for you and Drew! You made the right decision Maria! Friends or not, it’s just real bad business how they went back on the contract. Their word doesn’t mean squat and the’ve probably screwed a lot of other people before you.
Besides, now this only shows your future business ventures that Drew’s paintings are worth every penny and shouldn’t be taken advantage of. I think you have to stand up for what you believe in, especially in business. You have to start somewhere in creating some sort of prestige for yourselves. This could also be a good thing in that Converse and other people you do business with will see that you stand behind your product and that you are fair minded business people!
I don’t know about you but I wouldn’t want a friend who backs out on their word, business or no business, it still shows their true character. They would probably shit on you later on somewhere in your friendship anyway!
There will definitely be other opportunities for Drew to have some fun painting, just do the ones that will leave a good feeling in your stomach.
martha
27. Feb, 2010
.What’s the benefit of
having a contract if you allow the other party to break it without
holding them accountable in some way?
Could it set an example for everyone else that you do business with
that they can break the contract with no consequences?
Then again,going to court, is costly & time consuming.
It’s really disappointing what people do sometimes regarding money,
more disappointing when its a friendship or agreement broken as well.
Hopefully there is a ‘middle way’ that you & the “friend” can reach some sort of settlement.
Since your first asking price was $1200. each, they should at the very least pay an extra $4,000.00 for having painted 10 vans.
Joe
27. Feb, 2010
the client gave you an option to lower your mutually agreed upon price. Like Martha I would have graciously given the client the option to buy out his outstanding obligation on the contract at a discounted price. The problem in this case is not the low balling artists. This “race to the bottom” mentality has been rampart for many years and is not going to go away. This problem is with a person who lacks the integrity to honor a fairly negotiated contract. Sometimes a letter from your attorney reminding the other party of their obligation is all it takes to work out a solution that’s beneficial to both sides.
Caroline
27. Feb, 2010
I know it was a really difficult decision, but I definitely think you made the right one. The last thing you want to do is compromise your integrity, and that’s exactly what you would be doing – you wouldn’t feel good about yourselves. I think every correct decision should resonate inside of you as the right thing to do in whatever situation it may be, and if it doesn’t feel that way, no matter how you justify it, it isn’t the right decision. The fact that you would also be setting the bar lower for artists in general is a very important point, and one that many artists may not think of when concentrating on other aspects of trying to make their name in the art world. It’s unfortunate that you had to pull out of this deal, but at least your integrity is well intact.
Cecily
27. Feb, 2010
You bring up so many good points in this article. I know how hard you guys worked on those vans, and they were so cool! Mr. $500 is blowing it for all artists by undercutting the whole industry. I can’t see how artists can last long like that. I don’t know why someone would want to market themselves as the ‘do it for cheap’ guy. I think you guys did good by walking away and playing a-hole ( although it was actually fairly nice not to sue!). Sometimes I get ’sticker shock’ from my tutoring clients when I quote my fees, but I know I can deliver, and I don’t want to be the ‘bargain’ tutor, I want to be the best tutor! I think I get more value and commitment in the long run anyway. Of course, I have gotten so many good tips on not being a sucker from you, Maria- thank you!
Dustan Baker
28. Feb, 2010
This is such a hot topic! It reminds me of an article I read about the business of the surf photographer. I’ll try to summarize: Why is it that the the majority of surf magazine photos all come from about the same 12 guys? These guys are constantly threatened by amateurs, and part timers with real expensive digital equipment. There is ALWAYS a cheaper surf photo that the magazines can buy. Just look on surfline photos, the recreational users create amazing photos these days. The reason the magazines continue to publish photos from the big name photogs, and pay their professional level fees, boils down to one fact. THEY ARE ALWAYS WHERE THE SWELL IS. It’s their job. So if you are the editor of a magazine, and you need a great cover shot of an obscure pointbreak, and you go to press in 4 hours, who do you call? Would you call that one kid who sold you the saltcreek barrel photo for $100? No, you call the pro who has consistently traveled the globe in search of amazing photography opportunities. The pros get their fee
because they are worth it, not because someone will do it cheaper.
Thats what worries me about you clients business decision here. Will the replacement artist be able to serve the needs of the client for $500? I doubt it, so both parties end up unhappy.
I am a professional industrial designer. In my practice I often struggle with under-quoting a job. I have talked myself into doing simple 3D CAD jobs for $500 after I quoted $3,000. It is so easy to talk myself into. “I’ll be quicker, it will be easy, . . . .”. In the end, I have found that taking on the low ball jobs is bad for my health. It does not afford me the TIME i need to service the client , I am frustrated because the client wants so much of my time, and they are frustrated because i have to back burner their most important project.
Your client should have never dangled a 50 unit job in front of you if he did not have the brass to fulfill it. BS
Jason Wallis
28. Feb, 2010
I have had a similar thing happen to me with a “friend” client. I have decided in future I will say: go ahead and use the other photographers at the price then. If you are unhappy with their work you can call me up.
Regards Jason
JMatthewRiva
28. Feb, 2010
Well got a long story for u but didn’t want to make this response all about MY story so just wanted to say thank u for sharing and that I totally hear what u were trying to get across. Yes Yes Yes. Sorry you were put in this situation and yes I can understand why you took it personally. The prob is the biz of ART is putting a square peg in a round hole. Your problem, my problem, all our problem is we actually care about our product, our consumer, and how we feel about ourselves, a business usually doesn’t care about anything except making a profit and the only reason why they care at all about anything else or pretend to is to avoid an inverted ratio of sales to returns. Anyway, if you ever want to know my story of being stolen from and being forced to deal with a similar situ you know where to find me. All the best, matthew
Richard
28. Feb, 2010
Thanks for sharing your story. It seems there is a rhythm to all things in life including buisiness. But on the bright side, after a down there must come an ”up” right?
I had an idea, maybe ya”ll could make up some skins or decals that could work for this deal. that might not be as impressive as Drew’s custom paint job but they might be more cost and time effective. Just an idea…
Art Trip
01. Mar, 2010
Oh man, always someone who will do it cheaper. I’m sure that if the job could have been outsourced, they might get someone to do the job for 50 bucks. Kind of sad but nothing surprising in this tale.
Alyson Stanfield
02. Mar, 2010
Maria: Thanks for sharing your story here. It’s definitely a hard decision. Hard to be enthusiastic about working with someone who reneges. Good for you for taking the high road. And I agree: Something better is waiting in the wings. Godspeed.
Beth S.
02. Mar, 2010
Wow, tough situation. I’d have to agree with the comment that asks why bother with a contract at all if you don’t hold the parties to it? When they came back to you to “renegotiate” you thought you were being an A**hole if you said no? The only thing you did wrong was not using the leverage you had in an existing contract. They had a legal obligation to you that they agreed to by signing a contract with you. A friendship was used as leverage by them to put you in a situation where you “felt bad” about pushing for your rights. Excuse me, but if we don’t act businesslike how can we complain about being treated unfairly. Do you think other businesses with legal contracts just let the other party off the hook? If they did, then we artists couldn’t hang our work in swanky legal offices, now could we? I encourage you, and anyone else in a similar situation, to take the personal out of it (like they did), and repeat to yourself – “it’s just business” when you negotiate your prices for your work. What gets me most is that in art, we can really have the leverage to say – “you can’t get exactly what I’m offering from anyone else.” We just need to be confident that we deserve what we’re asking for.
Cindy Gilliland
02. Mar, 2010
That’s really messed up. I don’t blame you for not wanting the stress of a lawsuit. Since you covered yourself legally and there was really no lesson to be learned on your end, I must assume that the lesson to be learned will ultimately belong to your friend. I’m sure when all is said and done this x-friend will have regrets that far exceed yours.
Barney Davey
02. Mar, 2010
What a story. Unfortunately, it is one often repeated in all manner of businesses. For those artists and publishers who don’t believe or realize it, the flood of cheap and consistently improving Chinese oil paintings have hurt the market for affordable originals. In the past few years, poster publishers have focused their attention on the volume buyers because that was where the money was. Now, they are finding in some cases their buyers are sourcing art direct from artists and going to China to print the work, thus completely cutting them out of the distribution channel. There is no easy solution when everyone is looking for lower prices. To some extent, we are guilty. It is why we shop at Wal-mart and Costco. There are companies, called diverters, that specialize in buying bulk quantities of goods at cut rate prices , supposedly for overseas delivery, that are re-routed to Costco. The effect is the traditional retailer has to compete with higher prices because they cannot order at overseas wholesale rates. We love the cheap stuff and are addicted to it, which makes us enablers in many ways.
Who can blame us, we mostly work harder for less money than before, so a good price on bottled water, detergent or apparel helps make things easier… until we can’t get good prices for the stuff we need to sell. It is the true definition of a vicious cycle with no easy solution. Maria, you are neither sucker nor A-hole. You are a fair minded person who got stuck with a raw deal that only offers bad choices for the outcome.
I would have walked away also. But, I think you should have an attorney review the contract. If it is binding, then seek to enforce it. I would not get mired in a years long legal battle, but rather seek arbitration. If you have rights, you have to stand up for them.
Lastly, I have been saying for some time that artists need to do everything they can to own and control as much of the distribution of their art as possible. If there are fewer hands in the food chain, you can earn as much or more with far fewer sales. Plus, you are more insulated from shocks when news like BoundlessGallery.com abruptly goes out of business, or some gallery or retail chain that you have become too dependent on goes under or changes direction. The good news is with the Internet and Social Media tools, you actually have more opportunity to control your distribution than in any previous time. As the saying goes, “Illegitimi non carborundum.”
Maria
03. Mar, 2010
It’s called the Race to the Bottom. And I prefer to race to the top! (Sure, at a price, but at least I can sleep at night.)
Dennis T Panzik
03. Mar, 2010
The trouble is for such amount, it’s not even just the headache of going to court. It’s time and money. I’ve fought for a job I got screwed on. I had a written agreement. Slam dunk case. And I won sure enough. BUT, the guy I sues didn’t just shake my hand, say congratulation and hand me my money and the compensation for the court fees! No, I would had to of spent more money and time hoping to get the money out of him, that being if he even had it. What a joke the system is! Only the system made money. As an artist who hasn’t hit the big time yet; how am I to afford to fight? Let alone pay an attorney?
What we need is hero’s. People who can afford to stand up for the rest of us. I don’t really see that happening though.
As always, only the wealthy can bring more wealth, one way or another, or fighting for it through the court system.
So situations must be weighed with what is best for yourself.
…Sometimes you just got to walk away.
Nathan Gibbs
03. Mar, 2010
Interesting article here Maria. I am going to say some things from both perspectives because I have been on both sides. However as you know I am currently more on the artist side.
From the artists side:
1. I have been writing contracts for years for original art. To protect my rights, the rights of the client and to as you say, “put it in writing”. I have only once had a client try to massage the contract to a loss for me. I said, “Sorry it was a contract that you signed.” Now maybe I lost them as a future client, but hey, I stuck to the contract. A deal is a deal is a deal. So in my opinion friend or no friend, you should have said “sorry, we made a deal and a deal is a deal is a deal.” What helps is when you put it in perspective for them. If you were to have said, “sorry Mr. Van but we budgeted this profit into our business model and we have other projects going on based off of this revenue that WE WONT BACK OUT ON, then it forces the blame off of you being the a-hole and puts the blame on your business as being the a-hole. Because you “can’t” lower your price, not that you “won’t”.
2. Volume vs. Price: There was a point where I was turning out painting after painting for really cheap. I was doing this to try to get my name out and put art in peoples hands. Well flash forward to 2010. I won’t sell paintings EVER for that price now no matter what. Now I have set VERY strict guidelines for my art pricing. Sure there are always paintings I have that I want to move, so they are discounted, but for custom work there is a strict cost per sq. inch pricing for my different styles. I have said no to people on prices, and months later they come back and buy. I think in Drew’s case he is in my situation where he should, unless $$ are tight, not lower his price. So if in the van deal 50 vans at $800 bucks is $40k and 50 vans for $500 is $25k I would ask myself, how bad do I need $25k? How bad do I want to fight for $40k. If you are in a position to turn down $25k because it is too much work, then it should have been an easy decision. But if you really needed the $40k, plus the exposure, then see comment #1.
Now from Mr. Van’s point of view.
1. I run a business. My business has a budget. It has expenses. Sometimes my budget changes, sometimes my expenses change. There have been times where I tell contacts, “Hey I things aren’t going so good. Can we re negotiate my contract with you? I need to get X for a better deal. This other supplier has them for this amount of $$ can you match that?” Maybe they say no, and I have to live up to that contract. Maybe they say yes because they need my business as much as I need the discount. Either way as another poster said, it can NEVER be personal.
2. I like Drew’s work but some other artist I have that I also like can do it for $500. Man what do I do? That is a savings of $15k. What can that $15k do for my business? Maybe that allows me to reinvest and 3 years from now I have 100 vans for Drew to paint and then I can afford to pay him what he wants. You all run a business. It all boils down to profit vs expense. Any smart business owner always tries for the best profit even with “friends” otherwise they wont be in business for long.
So personally as an artist, I would have said, sorry we have a deal and a deal is a deal is a deal. But as a business owner, I would have had to try to negotiate a lower deal. But if you would have said no, we have a deal, and I don’t want to bring this to court and ruin our friendship, you could have really tested him. How close of a “friend” is he?
Unfortunately unless I missed something you will never know what would have happened if you played hard ball. Maybe after the fleet was done, Mr. Van would have said wow, this was worth $800 per van! Or maybe once Drew got into the flow he would have said, ahh this isn’t so bad for $25k.
My final point: How much would it cost us as artists to have 50 van size paintings driving all over the place advertising our product? Probably a lot more than $15k.
To be honest I hope I am in your exact situation some day. ; -)
Regina Benson
04. Mar, 2010
I’m so sorry this happened to you – but this is truly not uncommon. While I “blame” the other artists and your client friend, I also think you bare a portion of the responsibility. Say NO and walk away – better educated now. What is the reason for a law suit? You will be drained of more money than you will get in the end. Take this as a lesson and be honest with yourself. At some level you did not want to let go either, you were willing to sacrifice a living wage for the gratification of doing it, for the ego boost of saying “my art is on 50 cars”,etc. That is your “price”.
I’ve been there.
Diggy
04. Mar, 2010
Hey Maria!
Wow, really cool that Drew is doing so much art! Just to get the exposure to have your work on 50 vans driving around must be awesome.
Honestly, I would not let them drop the price, if they ask for $500 I would actually raise my price to $1000. If your work is really as good as you say, then they would only get inferior work for $500.
You don’t need to take the asshole approach either, just let them tell you if they think hey will get a better job for $500 and if they think it is fair to ask you do do it for such a low price. If they won’t budge, I would say, let it go. Don’t let them push you over!
Good luck
Name (required)
04. Mar, 2010
Hey Maria
First off congrats on the Nordstrom/Journey’s success. I’ll have to go into the store and check that out. As far as the choice you made, I think you made the right decision. Sometimes it amazes me how people try to lowball, but when you actually choose to work with less clients sometimes you end up making more money. I’m all for quality over quantity in many areas of life.
Thos Kite
04. Mar, 2010
If I were you I’d let the world know via the Internet the name and address of the company and person who broke their contract w/ you. At least others would be warned what to expect from these punks.
deni
04. Mar, 2010
you should never name names regarding business to business in a negative way – google and other sites keep this stuff forever it seems. who knows a year from now you mend fences with someone and still the negative writing is “out there” in internet land. further, this was a private business transaction between 2 business entities, i am not sure of the legal consequences but i think it is more complex than say your consumer to business kinds of “review” sites or other kinds of consumer related feedback.
as a rule i never name names negatively on the internet. it’s just always regrettable and unless it is your business to create drama (such as entertainment value i suppose), don’t do it.
also think about it this way – what if it was your name out there that someone said you screwed them in a deal. what if it was true, or only partly true, or not — in any case you then have to spend time refuting it, chasing it down, spend time fighting it on the internet and it becomes stressful and just like this endless time consuming ball of crap on the internet that is a waste of time and ruins everyone’s reputations involved regardless of innocence or guilt.
now that i think about it, save vengeful activities for when it really counts. and in one’s lifetime, this will be very, very rare for what really matters.
Maria Brophy
04. Mar, 2010
Deni, I agree, it’s best to not name names unless you are giving someone praise. I didn’t write this post to get even but rather to share with artists what happens when others go for the RACE TO THE BOTTOM (giving prices so low you can’t earn a living anymore).
To everyone who commented on this post: I gathered so much new info to consider, including what I may have missed myself. Thank you all. I didn’t realize what a chord I was hitting when I wrote this! Other than the fear that I probably shouldn’t have hit “publish”. But, usually when I’m afraid to publish, it turns out to be the posts that people are most interested in.
Alyice Edrich
04. Mar, 2010
I have to agree with you. The decision you made to let go of the contract was the right one. Suing, to keep the work, wouldn’t have made the work relationship hell.
It’s the same thing with writing. In the beginning, I used to undercut myself with promises of more work, and of recommendations. But I soon discovered that, like this man stated, “it’s all about the money”. It doesn’t matter if you give your best, it doesn’t matter if you’ve proven yourself over and over again, it doesn’t matter if they like your work, and it definitely doesn’t matter if you’ve built a good relationship. It’s all about the money. If they can get the same job done, for cheaper, they’ll go for cheaper.
Sadly, writers undercutting writers has only gotten worse over the last ten years, with companies expecting a decent article for just a few bucks an hour. No one can make a living working from home on $5 an article. No one can make a living working from home on minimum wage.
And, artists, well… the same thing appears to be happening in this area, too.
We’ve got to start believing in ourselves enough to say, “This is what I am worth, and I will not settle for less.”
Andy Mercer
05. Mar, 2010
I think you need to think this thru..
It is Drew who has been associated with these works which are obviously successful. So even if he walks away his work is still out there and making an impact. The reason others artists now want a slice is because his work is making an impact.
The customer would have to research the artists to find someone with a similar levels of imagination and skill… this takes time and time is money.
My advice would be politely stick to your price.. and mention the fact in passing that you have a contract. No threats. I would explain to them your costs. Some clients will always try and drive the price down and some realise that they have to pay to get a quality job. If these clients don’t realise the value of his work then maybe their competitiors will.
Stand your ground
If they take another artist on.. then this frees you to go to their competitiors and say “I was the guy who did this for work for them, I can do the same for you, in fact I will do better for you”
Andy Mercer
05. Mar, 2010
Why not go to the local media and tell them that you are the guy who paints the vans ? Not to have a go at the firm who have broken your contract. If they do a feature on you.. then when other artists get their work on vans you will get the credit ?
Think of the number of businesses out there who will see the 10 vans.. if they have read the local news and know your name.. you may well have a queue of clients.
Turn a negative to your advantage.
Joe Gemignani
05. Mar, 2010
As a Advertising photographer for 35 years what you described is what we went through a lot of the time. In the mid 70s we even got (some) of the local shooters together and formed a chapter of ASMP- American Society of Media Photographers. We all learned what agreements and contract looked like and how to use them, and why. I as chapter president took some heat from my clients for this, and lost some also. I now just make images for art and still sell my work, mostly to interior designers etc. It always felt to me when a client likes your work, your style, your price, and agrees on a contract to this. He (So) disrespects you as a create person. I understand this very well it has happened to me many times. Basically, as you said ” We are on our own” We can only control our own thought and actions. I try to learn more each day to be a better person and all the rest will follow.
doug
05. Mar, 2010
you are now free to paint vans for other companies. see how they like the competition. also the cheaper artist will probably disappoint them and they will regret the decision.
Yemoonyah
06. Mar, 2010
I actually think you should sue him for compensation, or at least have a lawyer scare him a bit so you get the compensation without the lawsuit. A contract is a contract! It’s just unbelievable what people think they can get away with.
BigToe
08. Mar, 2010
What an A**HOLE to bleed u on the price then weasel out of it. His karmic payment will be severe. If he reads this, i would want him to know that he is taking food out of your childs’ mouth. just plain bad…
You and Drew took a huge front-end pay-cut to do the job over the long haul and he pulls out so early? SHAME ON YOU guy!!!
i had had that happen to me a few times over the years. i have let the job go to sometimes disasterous effect. sometimes they come slithering back and sometimes not.
One time Warren Bolster (RIP), a talented photog threatened to come over to the mainland from Hawaii and kick the sh*t out of a boss of mine over non-payment of agreed-upon surf-photo usage fees. i thought that was extreme, but as i get older and crankier, i am starting to think that sometimes a bloody nose may be the only way to make a spineless a-hole like that think twice.
grrrrrr
PS; i love u guys
Time to Build Your Art Career on Defensive Opportunistic Optimism | Striking Photography Resources and Tips
09. Mar, 2010
[...] week, I added my comments to a lengthy and ongoing commentary to Maria Brophy’s blog post, Should you be a Sucker or an A-Hole – You Decide. Maria manages the business for her artist husband, Drew Brophy. He has been rocking the surf art [...]
Maria
09. Mar, 2010
I wanted to let everyone know that I’ve added an update to this story. You can go back into the post and read it. The short version is: We’ve somewhat resolved this issue with the company. They now want to continue to work with us, at the same agreed upon price. But they also want to use other artists that charge less, which means less paintings on our end. Drew and I are okay with this. It’s better than ending on a completely sour note…
BigToe
09. Mar, 2010
Glad to hear that the way you handled the situation left the door open to mitigate the situation.
The bonus is that altho the kids that can afford to undercut you are probably talented artists, no one is gonna be able to do the job nearly as well as drew does, either technically or creatively, for that money.
Experience is valuable and u get what u pay for.
Cheers! mr. Toe
Maria Brophy
09. Mar, 2010
Yes, Big Toe – YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! You said it, brothah!
Jamie Shelton
10. Mar, 2010
If you didn’t already do this, for future reference you may want to include a clause protecting you against things like that, what would essentially be called an “attrition” clause. For example, if you reduce your regular price based on promised work volume, you would want to include a clause that has the client guarantee a minimum payment if the work falls below the agreed upon volume for some reason other than an act of God, company going out of business, etc. For example, you priced $800 per van based on 50 vans, which totals $40,000 that you are projecting to earn. If the client reduces the number of vans to, say, 25 after you have undertaken the job (which only amounts to $20,000 total income to you), they pay you at least 50% of the lost revenue (or $10,000) in addition to that which is earned. This essentially helps protect you from the client changing the makeup of the job that they legally contracted you to do, and costing you money. It also helps keep the client “honest.”
JD
11. Mar, 2010
The unfortunate story here is that is really common place, and sometimes it is hard not to be an ass in response, but it is always better to keep it professional.
I have people use the, “Well this other guy can do it at this price,” at which time I usually say thank you for the inquiry, and feel free to contact us if you have any future projects. Essentially just walk away.
Artists can be our own worst enemies. I have had one scenario where an artist not only undercut me, but took a digital concept and painted it for the client (despite watermarks on the concept art). The client had actually taken the sketches and solicited others to paint the piece, to save a couple hundred dollars. Anyways the artist that painted the piece was paid a personal visit, the client I let be as even if they have work for me I am sure that I will be booked solid, even if I am starving.
In all this I would hope that when the owner switches to other artists in the long run, that he isn’t having these people poach Drew’s van paintings.
The other sad part is that is a steal of a deal to have vans painted at $800, the guy I have clearcoat my motorcycles charges me $500 (it’s worth it tho), you can’t even really get a good vehicle wrap for that price.
Steve Gray
12. Mar, 2010
Amazing story… sorry it happened, but people pay what they believe is the value of the product or service. I saw his website and went WOW! did they not see it? did they not know who he was, is etc… and drew sold out on his first price… then the second, you should have said hmmph and left it at that. then gone to find another van company, and present the concept.
It’s also about the negotiation, some people in business just try to beat the price down no matter what. it’s a prick! but that’s what they do so find other clients.
Jeff Dolan
23. Mar, 2010
When a prospect comes to me who wants my product, and price is either the first thing out of his mouth or a dominant factor in the deal, I price myself out of his range. These prospects rarely lead to great clients.
Those focused on price lose focus on value.