“Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons.” Woody Allen
Being “ripped off”. I really don’t like the negative sound of those words. But I’m compelled to write about it because it’s a topic that comes up again and again.
Yesterday an artist was in my office and she said that she’s been stiffed on payment too many times to mention. It’s worn her down and she feels unappreciated.
Getting stiffed on payment is sadly one of the most common and frustrating things that can happen to freelancers. It happens to artists, photographers, filmmakers, web designers and just about every small business owner at one time or another.
But it doesn’t have to ever happen to you (again). It’s very simple to avoid. You just have to do two things:
1.) Require a deposit up front
2.) Require the full balance at completion
The INSTANT you institute these two policies for your small business, you will NEVER have to make a collection call EVER again.
If it’s this simple, why do so many people continue to get “stiffed” on payment?
Because they don’t ask for the deposit up front and they hand over the goods before being paid. It’s too bad that art school doesn’t teach you the importance of running your art venture like a business.
Here are some of the most common excuses I hear from people who keep getting ripped off:
- “I don’t have a business mind”
- “I’m new at this”
- “I need an agent to do this for me.”
- “I needed the work really bad – I was desperate.”
Handling your business wisely is a decision you make, not a gene that you’re born with!
Please trust me when I say that YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE BEEN BORN WITH A BUSINESS MIND TO AVOID BEING RIPPED OFF!
You just have to institute your own payment policies.
I learned this the hard way when, many moons ago, Drew was “hired” by the large clothing company American Eagle. They asked him to create a detailed artistic map of one of the Hawaiian Islands. The art was going to be used for t-shirts and other accessories.
They were on a tight deadline and needed it yesterday. There was no time to get a deposit. Drew put in many hours drawing this up, and the art director at American Eagle kept making changes.
Their final change is what led to the non-payment: They decided not to use a map after all. We sent them a bill for the work done, and they never paid us. Dealing with a company that large is nearly impossible to get payment from AFTER THE FACT. That’s why we should have gotten money up front.
We were, by some standards, ripped off, taken advantage of and screwed over.
But I’m a firm believer that no-one can take advantage of you without your consent.
It was our own fault for not getting money up front before Drew put in many hours of work.
That was the LAST TIME we ever got stiffed on a commissioned job. We learned from our mistake, and since then have required 50% up front and the balance when finished (before we hand the art over).
THE PSYCHOLOGY OF REQUIRING A DEPOSIT
Two important things happen when you say to your client: “I’ll need 50% up front to start the work and the balance is due when the work is completed.”
1 You are viewed as professional: Your client now sees you as a person who has payment policies in place. They respect you, and they are clear on what you expect and how it’s going to go.
2 A commitment is formed: Your client is fully committed when they pay a deposit.
When someone pays a deposit towards something, they are making a commitment to the project.
It’s a psychological thing. Without a deposit, there is no real commitment from your client. It’s like buying plane tickets. My trip to New Zealand last year was just talk until I plunked down the $1,800 for plane tickets. Once that money was paid, it was a reality. We were fully committed.
HOW MUCH OF A DEPOSIT SHOULD YOU ASK FOR?
Many artists require 50% up front. The average, according to the Graphic Artists Guide to Ethical Pricing, is 30%. I prefer the 50% and so does my bank account.
HOW DO YOU ASK FOR A DEPOSIT?
In every conversation I have with a new client, I mention, up front (even with friends and acquaintances and my mother’s uncle’s niece) that we need a deposit to get started. (Hate to say it, but sometimes it’s the people closest to you that will stiff you).
You may feel strange asking for this. Get over it, do it, and you’ll get used to it and eventually it won’t feel strange anymore. Learning how to walk was strange also. But you got used to it.
When giving a price quote, include your deposit requirement in writing by e-mail or proposal. Here’s how ours looks in a price quote (I grabbed this from an actual proposal for a wakeboard design we did earlier this year):
PRICING: Fee is $3,800.00. A 50% deposit is required to start the work, and full balance upon completion. OPTIONAL: Original artwork may be purchased within 30 days of completion at a greatly discounted price of $3,500. (Payments shall be made to Son of the Sea, Inc. PO Box 836, San Clemente, CA 92674.)
And here’s what we put in e-mails sent to clients with big projects, like murals:
We must have your signed proposal and deposit for the mural painting NO LATER THAN 2 weeks prior to the start date. This allows us to get the materials we need at the pricing we configured for your quote.
Over time, your returning customers will know what you expect and they will be prepared to write you a check for the deposit. All of our longtime customers are used to the way we work. They also know that the work will get done to their satisfaction, because they’ve worked with us before.
RESISTANCE TO PAYING A DEPOSIT COMES FROM CLIENTS AND ARTISTS:
It’s not always the client feeling weird about a deposit. Sometimes it’s the artist. Here are some of the scenarios:
THE ARTIST DOESN’T REQUIRE IT BECAUSE THEY ARE DESPERATE FOR THE WORK: If you are desperate for work, than you surely cannot afford to spend time on something that you’ll never get paid for. A deposit weeds out the payers from the non-payers. The people who most likely will never pay you are the ones who won’t give a deposit. The people willing to give a deposit are the ones that are serious. See how this works?!
THE CLIENT REFUSES TO PAY A DEPOSIT: If a client won’t pay a deposit, they just aren’t ready to commit. If that’s the case, than you shouldn’t commit your time to their project.
Don’t get mad. Just let them know that you are happy to start the work after they pay. Tell them to call you when they are ready. Be friendly and professional.
THEY DON’T HAVE THE MONEY: I’ve run into this many times: When I tell someone that they have to pay a deposit, and then they say “Oh, I don’t have the money right now.” This tells me that they may never have it. So I say “When you do, let me know. We are looking forward to working with you.”
YOU FEEL YOU HAVE TO PROVE YOURSELF BEFORE YOU CAN DEMAND A DEPOSIT: If you’ve been at it for less than 2 years you may still have to prove yourself before you can require a 30% – 50% deposit. Maybe the client isn’t sure of your abilities and they are nervous to trust you. In this case, lower the amount you ask for to 20% instead.
YOUR CLIENT IS A HUGE 5 BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY AND THEY TAKE 3 WEEKS TO CUT CHECKS BUT NEED YOU TO FINISH IN 2 WEEKS: I’ve been faced with this scenario a few times. Here’s what I do: I ask the client to write me a personal check and they can bill their company for it later. Some people laugh at that, but the serious ones send me their personal check.
THEY FLAT OUT REFUSE: If they just refuse to pay a deposit, than most likely you’ll never get paid, no matter what you do, because of a lack of commitment on their part. So walk away. You’ll save yourself a lot of wasted time and frustration.
IF YOU’VE BEEN A PROFESSIONAL AT YOUR TRADE FOR OVER FIVE YEARS: You can STOP proving yourself. No one should question you at this point. You have good references that the client can call if they doubt your abilities.
EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULES: Of course, there are exceptions to every rule. We made an exception when we did a deal with Converse – Drew started the work before we got our deposit. They took 6 weeks to cut us a check. But we have a good relationship with our people there, and I knew they would take care of us. I very rarely make the exception, because of being burned in the past.
LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES
If you’ve been “ripped off” more than a couple times, than you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself what you’re doing to cause this. Analyze what’s happening – are you keeping your end of the bargain? Do you meet your deadlines? Are you a joy to work with? Do you behave like a professional? It’s important to learn from our mistakes and then change the way we do things if something isn’t working.
I read somewhere once that the definition of crazy person is: Someone who keeps doing the same thing over and over again but expecting a different result!
SIMPLE RULES FOR PRICING:
If you follow these simple guidelines, you’ll never have a problem getting paid:
Put your price quote in writing (e-mail is fine) – this way there are no surprises on either end. Give your quote leeway to add to it in the event that the scope of the work changes. (We do this by adding this sentence: In the event of unforeseen additional work due to conditions on surface or changes to the design by the client that may require extra labor or detail, this price could change.)
Have a payment policy and include that in your price quote (i.e. 50% down and balance due at completion)
Put a 30 day limit on your price quote – your situation could change or your materials costs can go up. On my proposals I’ll put: Proposal Date May 27, 2010. Proposal valid for 30 days
Don’t begin the work without a commitment from your client in the form of a deposit
Send your client frequent updates of the progress of the work, along with photos of the progression. This will give your client satisfaction knowing that you are working on it and that it’s getting done.
When it’s finished, send them a photo of the completed work and arrange to get final payment at the same time you hand over the goods.
I sincerely hope this article convinces all of you out there to institute your own policies. Even if you are a part-time freelance artist or photographer, you are in business. Your time is valuable. You should be paid for your work.
Please, in the comments below, let me know what problems you’ve had on this subject and how you’ve dealt with it!
Maria xxoo
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188 Responses
This works with writers much less often but if it’s a new client then a deposit is required. I’ve had magazines laugh at me when I invoice them for the deposit and I politely tell them they can get an intern to write it for them. It works sometimes and when it doesn’t then I write the same story for someone else who will pay. When you don’t act desperate for the business it comes more easily. Promise!
I disagree. I’m a writer too and if you demand a deposit, they just hire another writer who doesn’t ask for one. This deposit thing is not practised in the writing world.
Maria, U RUUUUULE!!!!
My big reason for not pursuing deadbeats was always a sinking feeling that my work wasnt worth the money. if the customer really wanted it, but would have paid!
Eventually i realized that was BS. I always ask for deposits up front. ESPECIALLY with new clients.
and that applies to commercial and art commissions!!!!
Thanks for the great post!!
Mr Toe
thanks Maria,
Great article. How important it is to *talk* about these issue. How helpful to other artists to share our experiences.
There are scammers out there too!
Artists need to get tough and smart or they leave themselves wide open to outright scams.
This week I received two email scam requests for my art, both trying to get my art without paying me. Both contained complicated manipulations (we’re moving so our movers will pick up the painting from your studio).
They requested prices and I was suspicious but complied until I was sure. (A large art organization had recently placed my link on their website, so it was possible that a total stranger may have found me that way and contacted me)
I could tell it was a scam when they would not respond to my payment options but emailed that they would pick up the paintings.
Is that the way a real buyer behaves?!
I had already heard of this scam via another artist. The punchline is that there is urgency because they paid with a counterfeit cashiers check.
No one is picking up anything until I have payment in full, and the check has cleared!
There are many variations on these scams. An artist in Chicago told me that he received some badly counterfeited travelers checks in payment by mail. Then the sender called saying he had an emergency and please refund in cash, but “keep a few hundred for your trouble”.
If you are an artist with an online presence, you will receive email scams. I am amazed to learn that some artists actually get taken by these scammers! They lose their art and usually some of their cash too.
Great article thanks for writing that.
thank you maria! great article and advice. also helps confidence!
Maria, you are the freelancer’s best friend!! The business BFF 🙂
I had a prospective client last week who I met at a presentation I did with my work. He asked a bazillion questions, over and over, both to me and my boss via phone and in person at said presentation. It was a two student tuturial at the highest end of the pay scale, plus commision, so I was pretty dang excited.
He was about to commit, but wanted me to come to the other student’s home over Memorial Day weekend to do some consulting and meet the other family in person. This is something I don’t do. I spend my working hours working, not schmoozing. Both I and my boss felt we spent plenty of time consulting with him by phone and it was time for him to make a decision and cough up a deposit. She even said I could bill him the tutoring rate for the consult if I really wanted to do it.
Truth is, I’m pretty darn busy, the calendar’s full, and the phone’s ringing with more work, so I told him I’d call him if some time opened up and I changed my mind about the free consultation, and told myself I’d wait 4-5 days and see what he does.
So less than a week later he confirms to doing the tutorial, and that was after speaking on the phone with another tutor from our office, one who’s been doing what I do for 7 years longer than I have. I think I earned a lot of respect by not jumping over to do that free consultation and waiting. It’s a $9600 job and I get a 10% commission!!! woohoo!
So that worked out, but I kept reminding myself that for every client like this guy, who needs to feel special and ask for special treatment, there are 5 clients who are great and work ‘business as usual,’ and to really put my focus there. Let this guy go if need be.
I love reading these blogs- the old Cecily would have done a free consultation, a couple of free hours, and worked at half the going rate, telling myself I was paying my dues or something. I wish I had this advice when I worked as an artist.
Cecily 😉
wow! thanks for this! I happen to be JUST going through something like this myself! Glad I cam across you blog on twitter this all very helpful!
A good line to insert into any contract or signed agreement is that usage rights, or transfer of rights do not go into effect without FULL payment to the artist. This opens up the client or even a third party end user to liabilities if the artwork is used without compensation. If the art is not used or there is a bankruptcy situation then hopefully a deposit was secured prior to starting the work.
Chris, yes, you are so right about that – I’ve added in a line on the contract that rights to reproduce the artwork are given when payment is received in full. That is a great additional protection.
I’m glad this post was so helpful. This is always a sore subject and I love what Cecily wrote about how the “old Cecily” would have given her time away but the new Cecily uses her time for the clients that are willing to pay for her precious time.
Our lives just get better and better when we keep working on ourselves and how we handle others. People will respond to that, and eventually you’ll be surrounded by good people who appreciate you.
Maria,
You have helped me gain a lot of respect from clients and also helped me weed out the ones who won’t pay by asking those two simple things starting long ago. There have been one or two times I have worked with a larger company thinking that for such a small job( like a t-shirt design) it would be easier to just get paid when the job is finished. But, what felt easier then was a lot of asking and bothering the client later for the money. It just confirms that when you ask for a deposit you are asking the client to respect you most of all and that you are a working professional. How would you handle a larger business client that the payment takes 60 days after artwork is delivered (aside from a contract). and doesn’t do a deposit because of a payment dept. takes so many days and forms to fill out, etc…)Especially when they are on a deadline. Thank you for your constant insight and helpful guidelines. You are awesome!
Hi Maria,
A long time ago, when I was paying other people to build my website because it was all html code, I engaged the services of a graphic designer online to design a nice banner ad to add to my site…She had clearly stated rules of engagement about her banner ad design work, in particular, the number of changes she was willing to make, & a set time limit for me to ask for any changes, at which point if I didn’t respond within that set time period, she took it that the job was complete & billed my pre-given credit card number…Job done…
I was impressed…
Great Advice Maria, thanks! I used your advice from a similar article you had written in the past on Drew Brophy’s website….and did NOT take on a project that I was refused a deposit for. I feel it was a good decision. But most of the time, people are fine with putting money up front.
Thanx for this one maria, it is so true.
Two Thumbs Up!!!
50% deposit is the way to go, I will also take credit card #’s and pre-authorize instalments, depending on the final price point, and stages of the work.
Great advice Maria.
The word *price* has been sort of a dirty word for a long time in relation to art. *Price* seems to be a rather disgusting word. Go into a gallery and ask about a piece, and the gallery person says “I will get the price list”. IN one gallery the gallery-sitter had to go upstairs to retrieve the “price list”. You are shown the list of “figures”, and never told “the price is….”. Or, “that’s a good price.” The word “price” is never uttered in a gallery, but *price list* is ok. Now I notice a lot of users of the term *price point*.
It’s uncouth to say “price” . Or, “this is my price”. Or ask “What is the price?” The mystique of it all scares artists. But then some collectors think this it is OK to bargain with the artist or gallery. Bargaining, and asking for discounts is the norm. Many artists have problems with pricing.
Artist Mark Kostabi tells collectors in advance that his prices are set, before they come to his studio, and that they can talk about art but doesn’t want to waste time discussing prices. He’s a millionaire from selling his art. He describes how some wealthy collectors try to buy multiple works from artists by showing up at the artist’s studio with stacks of cash with the bank wrappers still around the bills. This has been going on for some time too. There is quite a bit about this in relation to Willim de Kooning, in the book titled “deKooning”. The buyer a mega-weathy collector who got bargains for his museum. De Kooning, after living a hard life of poverty, would sell several paintings at once for cash in his studio to that collector, who walked away w/major bargains.
For me, I am fortunate to be represented by an art dealer who handles all the pricing of the work, so as to avoid the bargaining, and difficulty artists have figuring out what prices to set for their work.
great post!
A few years ago, when I was starting out, I did some character design work for a company. I should have know they were bad news from the beginning because they contacted me looking for students who might be interested in work (I used to be an art instructor for a correspondence school).
The first job went fine, even though I undercharged them drastically. The second job was a nightmare though. I completed the work on they used my artwork. I sent the invoice and it was confirmed that it was received. A couple weeks go by and I send another e-mail. A couple of months went by and I send another e-mail. After six months I sent an e-mail to another contact I had at the company asking if he could help me get paid….a couple of weeks go by, another e-mail. Finally a person within the account department e-mailed me asking for an invoice, I did get paid….BUT I felt like I had to become a nuisance.
That was the first company I worked for. It gave me a sour taste in my throat that took sometime to get rid of. My a learned that I needed to ask for a contract and payment schedule. I ask for 30% upfront, 20% after the first sketches have been approved or a 10% kill fee, the final 50% upon completion. That is what works for me and seems to work for my clients.
I love your blog, and am glad I stumbled on to it. I learn a lot form every post!
@Blake – I’m glad you found my blog, too! Your story is a good one – I’m glad you learned from it, though. Sounds like you’ve got a good policy in place for yourself now. The “KILL FEE” is a good way to get paid for those who abandon the project or change their minds. That would have helped us with the American Eagle situation.
@Marie – You’re so right about the word “price”! I could write an entire article on that topic. I’ve gotten very comfy saying the word, though!
Thanks for all the comments, everyone!
Thanks for writing this post and sharing your knowledge and experience. I have to say it’s so surprising that big established companies don’t necessarily mean guaranteed payment… I’ve definitely be ripped off. It hurts…not just to the bank account, but your self-worth, your relationships, your emotional health…a lot of things are affected…not just that x amount money or hours lost.
One thing I’ve encountered that I never expected was a previous client that has paid without problems…suddenly disappearing and “fleeing” from payment. It’s really difficult when relationships just end in that way. I wonder if there is anything to do when there are outstanding invoices…collection agencies? Or is it not worth the trouble?
Linda, I agree – It is surprising that some of the larger companies will just not pay. And they have the power – some of the large surf companies I USED to deal with (won’t do work with them anymore) have this thing where NO ONE EVER answers their phones, not even the receptionist. You can leave messages, send letters, and nobody cares or responds.
One of the surf companies I used to deal with wouldn’t pay and wouldn’t return calls. I did a little detective work & got the CEO’s personal cell number and called it. He was pissed (how did you get this number, he asked), but he got his people to send me a check!
To answer your question – is there anything to do when a company doesn’t pay? You can take them to small claims court or sue, but if it’s just a small amount, I’d write it off to a learning experience and never allow it to happen to me again.
The best way to avoid the problem is to get your deposit, don’t hand the final work over until balance is paid in full, get contracts signed, and only do business with reputable companies.
In an ideal world…..
Thanks, Maria! If only we had that ideal world… I always wonder how these bad people can be living with themselves…it’s pretty horrible…
Hi Maria,
I agree with this completely and I think you did a really great job outlining it in detail. Several months back I had an experience with a client who basically disappeared off the face of the planet after about 10 hours of work. Fortunately it wasn’t a brutal blow, but I learned that lesson right then and there. I
I think that any client who is not willing to put down a deposit is worth walking away from. As you said for the artist doing stuff for free and fear of asking for a deposit is a sign of desperation. When people are desperate they don’t even do their best work.
I’ve spoken to gallery owners in San Francisco who had stories of how the wealthy “borrow” art on trial, or take it home and promise to pay later, or send in payments, but the gallerist never receives any money, month after month, years go by. The art hangs in the large homes of the wealthy as if they own it. The artist receives nothing. The wealthy know that the gallery owner will not dare complain since it’s a small city and the wealthy usually have power and connections. They use their position and power because they can. Often wealthy people look down on those with less.
Have you seen the video clip of actor John Voight vehemently complaining that Obama was going to take money from the rich and give it to the poor? (on the Huffington Post site)
Seems to be fairly standard that if you are at the top looking down
you typically have little empathy for those “beneath” you.
So as the wise yogis in India say, “life is a game.” Think of it all as a game that you have to play. Don’t take it too personally. If X makes a certain move, then you have to make yours.
Like Maria did “a little detective work” & got the CEO’s personal cell number and called it and got her check!
And why not? So he got pissed off. He was also thinking “she must have some connections so I better pay,” and did.
Love it! A very cool tough woman!
I did the fine art show circuit for decades and took commissions quite often – always with a 50% deposit and balance due on receipt of work – never had a problem, not once.
BUT . . . a friend of mine who does huge landscape paintings has people who ask if they can borrow the painting for a week or so “to see how they like it”. He takes a check for full payment and let’s them take the painting home on trial. This is fine and works out in most cases HOWEVER every time this happens BEFORE A BIG HOLIDAY the client brings the painting back saying it didn’t work.
Baloney – they wanted a big expensive painting to hang in their house during the holidays to impress their guests and they figured out a way to do this for free!
I told him that he should charge a “restocking fee” for any returned painting – say 10%. At least during the holidays. Or simply tell the people that his Holiday Rental Fee is 10% per week, lol!
it amazes me how so many people try and rip you off
sometimes friends too. the best thing to do is calculate
the hours spent on a piece and give yourself good hourly
rate beware of galleries as well one lost half my degree show
and claimed he did not recieve the work.
there are many charlatans in the art world and you must be
cleverer than they are once you have reputation you can start calling
the shots i.e large quantities for your work $1000 dollars or you can do
freelance graphics for blue chip companies for large payments.
you are as only as good as your last piece of work as well no getting
lazy and complacent or even arrogant the work you do should do the
talk.
its okay working for friends but be warey they might want something
very cheap ie $100 dollars for a masterpiece you have spent hours at
this is stupid and you will regret decisions like that made with friends
in a bar its not good to conduct business under liquor and you might
put your defences down.
get a reputation for good work the rest will follow your name your style and quality.
approach big galleries and think internatinally other countries have money as well
This is invaluable information. It’s such a simple business concept but it’s amazing how many people don’t know it.
My 3rd comment here, but wanted to share this related blog article:
*Profit is not a dirty word: It’s time to earn what you deserve”
http://shaboominc.com/blog/archives/profit_is_not_a_dirty_word_its_time_to_earn_what_you_deserve.html
Maria… Maria… Maria… Wait for it….
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THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!
I love the sincere and down to earth quality of your writing. Like just about every one of us, I’ve gone through these problems before. I can tell you I’ve learnt more than just one thing from this article and I’m going to implement A LOT of this right away.
Again… MANY THANKS! -Danny
You are my hero, no, better: my heroine!
…and I’ve been told I was a tough cookie! ( In years of art and translation work I have had to chase after my money so often. And I have always got it! With a lawyer, if necessary.)
But you have really put together the arguments for up-front deposits. And I will use them!
Thank you!
Thanks! If I can save just one person from the perils of being ripped off, I’ve done my job!
Maria,
I always enjoy your open dialog about the business deals you enter into. You bring people like me years of information and give it all away. Thank you!!!!!! I need to set these guidelines in place for my business. I just got lucky collecting a 3 month old bill of $1,000. The client’s mother had to pay me via credit card on google checkout. I am not in the “collecting bills from dudes mother out of state” business. I am in the ART and INDUSTRIAL DESIGN bussiness.
Dustan, I’m so glad that you finally got paid! Okay, so now that you’ve learned from this, you know what to do in the future, right? Deposit and balance before giving over the goods.
Thanks for the kind words you wrote about my writings. I so much appreciate it!
fo sho, sistah! thanks…i am learning…props to you two for doing what rocks you and makin’ it work…peace and love from the land of j^pan…davej and tamaki
…used the 30 day clause last week (^_^)
I can agree that you should ask for something up front to show you’re serious about things. Even if you’re new, at least let them know you’re happy to do the work but that you mean business and they need to respect that fact.
Crap happens to everyone but in the end, it’s honestly your own fault for either doing it wrong over all or not learning from your mistakes.
What do you think?
I mean, I’ve never made money online myself but plan to and do have some skills and feel that my skills are worth money so if someone’s paying me, they’re going to pay me. Period.
Hi Maria, Great article! I have been freelancing for over 10yrs, and its amazing how this kind of thing still happends. But if you believe your work is worth it, then you wont be scared to ask for the deposit upfront.
I have a question for you, maybe you can help me with! Lately, I have been struggling with getting clients in (when I say lately, I mean the last 2years) and I have been using Elance and a few other bidding sites (I know!!) I have had some great clients through them, but the problem now is, I only getting half what I used to make, and I’m struggling to get back to were I was making ok money for my work! I want so badly to ditch this type of “exposure” but when your not getting anything in, then you have to do what you can! I know my work is of a high standard and that I can make tripple what im making now, but I can’t seem to get anyone to notice me outside of these sites!
I was with a client for almost 6yrs from 2000, and when that contract ended, I was left to relook at how I went about finding clients. I have 2 sites, my main site http://www.clintsuttonart.com, and my more focused one http://www.logomascotman.com , but Im not getting much work through them.
I guess Im just interrested to see if you have any ideas? As I have always loved Drew’s work, and Im a surfer myself, from South Africa.
thanks
Clint
With PayPal there is no reason not to be able to get full payment or a deposit UP FRONT – even on an emergency job!
Most companies and clients have a credit card and they can pay you via PayPal with it.
If you don’t already have your own Merchant’s Account to take credit card payments PayPal is one way you can. Yes, you’ll pay a small fee but just build that into your invoice – it’s usually around 3-4%.
You can even do this at a location outside your home – most smartphones can now access the internet and many banks have it set up so you can authorize credit cards on your merchants account via your cell phones too. I did this for years at art shows – and the money was transferred automatically to my account once it cleared, no trip to the bank to deposit it!
There are also bank transfers but they are a pain in the rear-end and their fees are much higher.
If someone balks at paying a deposit they are most likely going to give you trouble when it comes time to collect. I require a minimum 50% deposit on all quotes with the balance due BEFORE I transfer their job to them. These are my terms and I state them CLEARLY and in writing to all prospective clients.
PopArtDiva–love your strong business personality!
Even a client who is honest may be juggling bills and shuffle an artist to the bottom of the pile if they show signs of willingness to begin working without a deposit.
Even certain very wealthy people I have encountered have been on the alert for ways to forestall payments. PopArtDiva has good advice for *not* leaving any doors open to allow that.
Thanks for all the helpful information in the article! I really like the points about a person that isn’t willing to pay the deposit may/probably isn’t going to be willing to pay you for your work.
Hats off to you for sharing what’s working for you guys.. It’s great for us guys that are new to the game!
Cheers,
JJ
Re. the term “price”. Instead of that term, use “cost or cost to you” or, better still – “INVESTMENT”. Your client may have just PURCHASED a future MASTERPIECE!. Incidentally, in many years of painting I have never received a “bad check” from a client. On the other hand, I’ve had one gallery “disappear” with my paintings. I hope he’s never found!
Happy painting everyone.
Great article! This information is also helpful in our industry as well…
This is the best article ever! Well now one of my favorites. Maria this is extremely helpful and I can relate to a lot of it. Thank you for the post I have learned a ton from this!
Thank you for all the advice!
Ok so this question would be in a worst case scenario for say a guitar, surfboard, skateboard, or any other kind of personal item from the client. What do you do if a person commits to the work, and they put a deposit down, but they don’t like the final work. Lets also say the final work is perfect and looks killer, but they demand their money back as well as their personal item. What do you do in that scenario?
Thanks Maria,
Its hasn’t happened to me but just in case if I ever get in that position it would be nice to know how to respond to the client.
Joey, Here’s my thought on that dreadful scenario you gave!
First, do your best to avoid ever having a client want their money BACK after you did your best work. Here’s one way – keep them apprised of your process the entire time. Example: First, email or show them sketches of what you plan to paint – get them to approve it before your paint it. Then, email photos periodically during the painting phase. That way there is no surprise.
Remember: Your customers are going to be people who have seen the other work you’ve done – they already know that they love what you do, that’s why they hire you.
We’ve never had this scenario happen – but if it did, even after we did our best, then unfortunately they’ll have to live with it. They knew what they were going into when they commissioned the work.
In the end, do your best work, behave like a professional, and only work with people who share the same values and ethics as you do….
Traditionally, the person commissioning an artist pays for all of the materials before work begins and none of that is refundable. If the person commissioning the artist doesn’t like the final work, they can walk away and the artist keeps the work.
Thank you Maria. I have always taken 50% down and never been ripped off regarding commissioned work. However in consignment agreements with galleries it gets more complicated. They have a painting until it sells, by signed agreement they pay within 30 days. I have found out that a piece sold only when trying to get the work returned at the end of the contract and lo and behold the work was no longer at the gallery. Why? because it sold. Did I get paid? No. Did I know the owner well? Yes. I’m not sure how to avoid such a situation because one can only trust that a gallery will abide by the contract when leaving a painting with them. If they previously had a decent reputation and you get stiffed if they are struggling, it’s really quite frustrating.
Rosemarie, thanks for finding my blog and for the comment!
One thing about the Gallery that “forgets” to pay: A great remedy for that is to include in the consignment agreement a clause that states that there is a late fee, either in the form of a %, like say 1.5%, or a flat fee of say $20/month, that accumulates for every month they are late in paying.
I have such a clause in all my license agreements and consignment agreements. It’s amazing that when people know they are going to get charged extra, they will “remember” to pay on time!
Thank you Maria. That’s a great idea. This one didn’t forget at all. Initiated a call to tell me the check would be mailed that week. Called weeks later to say this week for sure, etc. Just never paid. Greater loss to me than the money was the friendship. It’s always the elephant in the room so eventually you leave the room. But that is a very good idea about a late clause for those who forget or think that the money due to the artist is a business loan.
It is extremely rare I ever post to blogs, but I came across your article today when searching “politely decline work if no deposit is offered”. Then I realized, after reading this, I don’t have to be so polite.
I now work full-time (however, it is not the normal 9-5 type setting). I still entertain offers, but as a contractor I have stumbled. . .not taking a deposit on the front is a bad mistake. Oh yes, this to be true, I know. So when a company (legit) from London approached me to conduct a feasibility study and to possibly head up their US Summit, I put time and a lot of effort into my proposal. Had a conference call with London, Even told them from the get-go that no work begins without a deposit. To which they agreed. Then it got time to get down to work and I re-emailed them about a deposit. Back-track is an understatement. As much as it pains me not to to take the consulting offer, I declined it this morning. This article makes me feel a lot better about my decision. Just something to reaffirm that even when tempted, do NOT take a contract without a deposit! Unlikely the business offering the work would do that, so neither should you!
Thank you again.
Thank you so much for your concise and professional advice. I live in NYC and it can be difficult at times to assess whether a client is serious. Thanks to you, I feel much more confident that I will no longer get ripped off. If you have any further advice/ experiences with copyright issues I would be very interested. Thank you so much!
Thanks for this article, I needed it lol… I am still in the awkward “proving myself” phase and that’s the self-defeating phrase for my money-woes with art. Also I have had SEVERAL bad experiences where when I request ANY money, I am treated like I am INSANE for wanting anything at all.. I quoted a lady only TWENTY DOLLARS AN HOUR to do a mural (and not a big one at that)— she literally called me INSANE and threw me out of the house saying no one would ever pay that… Next time, a small town asked me to repaint a sign on the town square. Not even a big deal. I quoted the same thing, he called me INSANE and threw me to the curb… Then 3 years later he gave up trying to get someone to do it for NOTHING and hired a painting company (not even an artistic painting company but a indoor wall flat wall color painting company) for 60 dollars an hour (oh you know I asked!!)… It looked really bad, they couldn’t even paint inside the lines, it looks like a third grader was trying to color a coloring book ha ha ha… I don’t know if I felt hurt that he chose these guys for 60 dollars an hour, or felt happy that he got his karma.
Of course I didn’t do either of those jobs, but that’s not the end of the many MANY stories I have had where I am treated like I am A NOBODY and I shouldn’t expect anything at all. I worked at a restaurant for a while where the boss asked if I would make some posters… I put a crazy amount of effort into it, even LUGGING MY iMAC DESKTOP TO WORK so he could be by my side and give his opinion as I worked… I gave him an AMAZING deal of only 15 dollars an hour because at the time I was still in art school. He said “I am only paying you 9 dollars an hour, and if you don’t like it I will fire you, and you can’t do anything about it because you need to pay your rent… Don’t be stupid, there’s no way I am paying 15 dollars an hour.” I couldn’t believe it…
It’s hard asking for the deposit and even TALKING about money, but I do it, because I have been burned so much. It’s good to know I AM NOT CRAZY. People DO pay GOOD money— I have to be looking in the WRONG places because for some reason I attract people who always try to take advantage of me. EVERY single person I have ever asked for a contract, they back out. If I ask for money, they IMMEDIATELY back out, and start SCREAMING at me. I mean they don’t just say “Sorry I don’t have the money.” I actually get a very horrible, emotional reaction from what I thought would be a potential client….
One guy told me when I applied for a job to design a car actually said “I have got investors now, but I don’t have money for you. You will have to do it for free.” It was such a slap in the face. Literally the guy told me he HAD the money, but it didn’t matter because the money wasn’t for me, and he wouldn’t pay me (pay an artist who ever HEARD of such a thing?????)
So I guess the point of this soap box rant is: “How do you find the GOOD deals?? I seem to attract the wrong people, is there an effective way to attract a decent, willing to pay, client base?”
(sorry for the rant, lol, this topic just struck a cord with me!!!)
Dear Kendra,
Wow, you have some painful stories here! To answer “How do you find the GOOD Deals?” This is a blog post I think I’m going to have to write!
Until then, here’s what you do: Don’t waste time on the bad ones. Be sure to be a very good communicator – make it clear, up front, what your fees are. Be good at what you do and have integrity (that attracts better clients). Work on your own reputation. Don’t get involved with people with a bad track record. And most important: Make it clear, from the beginning, that you are a business not a charity. You can train people to see you as a professional. It takes practice. Now, keep an eye out for my blog post with the long answer to this question!
I wish you the best!
I also really appreciate this article; no one ever teaches ” Contract Writing 101 ” in art school, but they should! I have similar horror stories, not including verbally aggressive people, luckily, but many instances where payment never came, was far less than promised, or was withheld for months. I have had to become much tougher as a business woman, and am still learning. Thank you for writing this article!
To any and everyone who has had clients pay late or had trouble chasing payment – please fill out our questionnaire!!
This is a problem we want to fix, but we need to make sure enough people want it!
It’s only 8 questions, 2 minutes, so your help is much appreciated 🙂
http://bit.ly/SepkiO
Thanks,
Jordan
Great article. I really appreciated for helping other artist in the area that we need the most information to keep doing what we love..
Great article! And just to reiterate what you wrote and address past comments, do not, I mean D O N O T take on any job without at least a third deposit!! I can’t state this strongly enough. Every job I’ve taken on without a deposit has resulted in a ton of preliminary work that went nowhere and the potential client eventually bailing out for whatever reason. If a client can’t put “skin in the game” then they were never fully invested in the project to begin with!
great give me confidence !!!
My word, I cannot tell you how helpful this post has been. Answered all my questions in one go, and your actual real examples are super helpful. Thank you so much!
I NEED HELP.
I have a situation where I got a deposit and months later the client wants their deposit back.
I was commissioned to do a book jacket and 10 page illustrations for a children’s book. The refused to do business by telephone. They do it online only. I explained that the job will take some time because of the nature of the detailed nature of the work. I told them my fee for the book jacket cover. The client said that it was too costly. I shared that I was willing to work with them financially. I explained that I would do it for a royalty of one dollar per book copy sold and that I would need a deposit to cover material cost for each illustration. I received an amount that we agreed to that was well below the one-third to one-half deposit amount I usually require before I start a job.
I Accepted part of it and proceeded with research and sketches and acquiring material that I needed to get started. There was a deadline that I could not keep and upon asking for more time the client graciously granted it. A few days later the client change their mind, claimed they got another illustrator and demanded their deposit back with threats to collect within 24 hours. The new deadline has not expired yet. They contacted Pay pal to demand their deposit. Pay pal declined because too much time had past for them to do so. I am still working on the project and have devoted a lot of time in it. I have not given them anything tangible that they can use art wise. What are my rights? What can I say or do? Thank you.
Dear Eric,
Sounds like a stressful situation, but, take a deep breath. Step back for a moment. Look at it all with fresh eyes. And then determine the best action to take.
It sounds like the client is unhappy either because 1 – You missed the deadline or 2 – they don’t like the concepts you’re coming up with
And, the client has moved onto another illustrator, so I don’t think that they will use whatever you come up with anyway.
I’m going to assume that there is no contract. Which is a big mistake, and in the future, always put it all in writing.
So what to do now?
You could approach it this way: Knowing that you will never see another penny from this client, other than what you’ve already been paid, offer to produce a piece of art that they can use, in exchange for what they paid. This will make you feel better about it, and maybe make the client feel like they got something for their money.
OR: Just walk away. Keep your deposit if you did enough work to justify keeping it. Most likely, they won’t sue you for it, unless it was a huge amount of money worth fighting for.
A deposit is something that’s given to get the artist started, to cover their costs and time in the beginning. When a client changes their mind, and you’ve done the work, you don’t give their deposit back.
USE THIS AS A LEARNING EXPERIENCE – this is how we all learn in business – the hard way! In the future, to avoid these situations, do this:
1 – have a contract that lays out payment, deadlines, all details
2 – Keep your deadlines, even if you have to stay up for 3 nights in a row without sleep. This is what professionals do – they keep their promises
3 – keep an open line of communication with the client – continually check in to make sure they are pleased with your progress, or if they want changes, etc. (The fact that this client was looking for another illustrator tells me they were unhappy with something you were doing)
And again, don’t sweat this – these things happen to all of us in the beginning.
The most important thing is to learn from it, improve how you handle yourself and others, and never let it happen again!
I wish you the best! 🙂
Thank you so much for your hard work, your open honesty on what has and hasn’t worked for you, and on good business practices overall. You are disgustingly talented & I’ve learned so much from you. I pray GOD continually bless you, your family and your business. I’d love to hear your feedback on my work, if you ever get a moment to check out my website. Thank you again and please keep doing what you’re doing!
Hey,
Thanks so much for the article.
I am going to paint a 9 by 9 wall soon and settled for just 200$ for the entire deal . I feel rather stupid seeing the prices that are quoted around for the murals. There is also this that i am painting murals for the first time and I am kinda nervous about it . I am an artist AND have had exhibitions and painted shoes etc.. yet a little nervous.I got this job from a friend of my mom but after reading this i do get it that i need to b e professional about this stuff. Thanks 🙂
Great info, and thank you for such generosity of spirit! I do have a question, though: For mural artists, how can you “withhold” the final goods before handing them over, if the final payment is not forthcoming from the client? I can understand if it is a standalone piece (still in the artist’s possession), but let’s say it’s a mural at the client’s own home/business.
This is assuming the client has paid their deposit already, but how do we stay smart with a deliverable like a wall mural?
Thanks so much!
Gilat, that’s a great question. The best thing you can do to ensure that a mural client pays at the end:
1 – Make sure you’re working with a good client (not someone you don’t trust)
2 – Have them sign your agreement (it can be a one-page agreement – see my post on HOW TO PRICE A WALL MURAL for a sample agreement)
3 – If you are really worried, work out your payment structure this way: 1/3 up front, 1/3 halfway through, 1/3 at the end.
That should do it!
That makes perfect sense – so much of our dealings still rely on the timeless element of trust, don’t they? Thanks so much for your prompt response and insights, Maria!
Hello I’m having a difficult time with a client. A friend referred her to us and between coffee we mentioned what our prices consist of. Later without making a legal contract, we trusted she would pay and we began creating 2 logo designs that she said she needed right away. At that moment we realized we needed a contract or legal form to present to clients before designing. So, we emailed her with the proposal asking for 50% deposit and the rest at completion of project. (NOTE: we had already started on the project when we emailed her with the proposal.)She had mentioned at the beginning that she needed these designs within a week, HOWEVER, she did NOT check the proposal (that we so persistently urged her to look at) until a month and a half later, upon which she responded to saying “I normally pay less for a logo, thank you”. ?!?! We were so upset and with the timely work of 2 logo designs now unpaid. During the weekend I searched for an appropriate answer to reply to her but couldnt come up with a “professional” way to tell her everything. She wrote back before I could email her. In her email it read “I need to finish up all unfinished tasks. I;m leaving out of town and I need my designs finished. I am willing to pay $250 for the logo, Call me please”. The original price for a graphic logo that we offered in the proposal is $550 plus design for brochures, and she only wants to pay $250!! How do I address this issue? This is so unfair and under appreciated. We provide the logo designs in 9 formats and with a copyright. Should we offer the logo without the formats and copyright in exchange for $250, or should we not go for less than previously stated? PLEASE HELP!!!!!
Here is my basic answer, although you may not like it. The bottom line, and in fact the main point of this entire blog is DO NOT START WORK UNTIL YOU RECEIVE DOWN PAYMENT. PERIOD. And ESPECIALLY do not deliver the goods!!! If you do you are setting yourself up for, well, the situation you now have.
OK so that’s water under the bridge now. Here’s what I would do: Get the $250 UP FRONT BEFORE DELIVERY, give them a single .ai file or JPEG (NOT the layered files!!!) and run like hell, forget the brochure, then just chalk the whole thing up to lessons learned.
Dear Marla,
Thank you so much for the comment and the question. First of all, please learn from this one very big mistake that you made: you began the work without having the client agree to a price.
I don’t know many people who will pay for something without first agreeing to a price. Would you?
So, from this moment forward, always give a price quote before starting the work on any project. And, of course, get a deposit.
Now, how do you handle this problem today? I agree with Jim’s suggestion.
And the most important message Jim gave you was this: Chalk this up to a lesson learned.
I wish you the very best – and I’m so glad that you landed here because I do believe that from now on, you’ll be handling your business much more like a business! 🙂
These are absolutely geourogs! I love how you were able to catch them on the swings. Not easy to do for sure! They look like they were having a blast:)
I am so glad i found this article. I have been ripped off several times in the past two months and was getting so frustrated. Why is this happening to me i kept asking. Now it is so clear, had i asked for a deposit before i began the work i could have easily identified those who were never willing to pay me for my work.
Hi, having just read your post on how not to get ripped off I am still no better off ! Yes it completely makes sense to ask for a deposit up front especially if your doing commissioned artwork BUT if your a designer and the only way for you to get exposure is too send out your portfolio or a link to your online portfolio then how do you stop them from ripping you off? This has happened to me recently with a large greeting giftwrap company I quite simply do not have to finance to take them to court (they know this) and can just walk all over me, the only way for a freelancer like myself to get some exposure is to send a portfolio on spec. I have a couple of agents that also sell for me but on this one occasion the company in question did not want to deal with agents they wanted to deal directly and as a major high st name I thought innocently that they would be up front and honest, how wrong can you be! instead they have ripped me off and I cant see how I can stop this. I’m in a kind of catch 22 situation if I dont show my work it wont get ripped off and if I do I run the risk each time of being ripped off, I quite simply cannot win!!! This has upset me so much and finally after 20 years of trying feel like giving in and giving up on this dam design career.
Sarah, here are a few things you can do to prevent someone from stealing your art:
Make sure that you send only low res images to potential clients
All your images should have your (c) Notice clearly printed on them
Your name, phone number and email address should be clearly printed on all flyers that you leave behind.
When someone/a company “steals’ your art, promptly send a Cease & Desist Letter and shut it down.
Thank you for writing this article! I should have read it sooner…. I’ve been in business as a freelancer for 5 years. For the first time ever, I’m feeling extremely taken advantage of. Although, I usually require a deposit, I waved it a month ago for an art director/client an old colleague/friend of mine referred. The project was to be a quick 2 week turn around with his art direction. The art direction was vague and misleading, we missed the look and feel at first because what his client wanted was something very similar to their website – but he set me out on the wrong foot requesting something very different than the site. Now my client, the art director, has told me about urgent family matters he must attend to, and requested some of my files so that he could prepare them for the next step. He made it seem like an emergency, and so I sent them. I want this project in my portfolio, I also want to get paid. It’s been a month since the start date, and my work has been on hold for almost 2 weeks. Anyhow, I’m going to press on, contact him soon if I haven’t heard from him. But I can’t shake that feeling that I royally screwed up due to eagerness and blind trust and should have been savvy. I could of saved myself from a lot of anxiety.
Dear Judy,
Don’t be so hard on yourself, and take this as a learning experience.
I have found that the one time I made an exception to my Deposit up Front rule (for a friend) I got screwed over. SO, I never make that mistake again! Even with friends, we wait for the deposit BEFORE beginning the work.
IF the client is in a hurry, they will hurry up and get you money so that you can get started.
You have all the power here – DON’T start the work without the deposit!
It’s so simple. Now you know, and you’ll never make this mistake again.
Now, with this current problem – don’t give this person anything else.
Promptly send him an invoice with the amount due.
Call and follow up and find out when he’s sending the check.
Go pick it up if you have to.
This is how you take control over your business. And once you do, you will feel empowered, confident and happy about what you’re doing.
I wish you the best!
People still after completion think that they can get away without paying.
I have taken a 40% deposit and payment was due on completion and signed for, however they decided to bounce the cheque. The law in the UK means that you may as well kiss your money goodbye.
I just found your website today and I haven’t been able to pull myself away from it. Excellent posts, responses and solutions. I would like to add one more very valuable tidbit that I learned from a friend who is an intelligent gifted artist as well. He was commissioned to do some very high-end blacksmith work (interior railings & banisters) for an executive in the banking industry. He did make a contract that stated 50% down with all the terms well written. The company sent him a check and he deposited it. (It was good) except that it was for about 49 1/2% he called them, they said it was an oversight, it would be a lot of extra red-tape and you know they were good for the money. He completed the job. No more payment, why because with all of their very crafty lawyers the contract was not valid from the start because the terms were not met. So the moral of a hard earned lesson that he told me and I’d like to pass on is: whatever the terms are make sure you collect the full amount. Thank You Maria for so many useful articles. Peace to you & Drew.
Wow, Brett, that’s a bummer what happened to your friend. It is a lesson to all of us!
Thanks so much for the kind words about my blog. I’m glad you like it. Please, sign up for my newsletters so you’ll get my posts in your email!
what if you get a deposit but upon completion they will only pay you the deposit. Am I allowed to go get what I installed??
I had installed 16 growboxes which came with organic compost and soil and the free plants we gave them and dropped 80 garbage cans of mulch…the resident manager approved of it all and gave us a deposit…then the owners came back from vacation and wont give us a dime…cant i just go get my stuff if they wont pay for it??
Dear Marceau, I’m so sorry this happened to you!
I have two thoughts on this. First, prevention:
1 – the way to prevent this from happening again is constant communication. Remind the customer the day before the finish day that you will expect payment the next day. Then, remind them again the morning of the last day.
For your current problem:
Yes, go get your stuff! I don’t know if that’s legal, but I would be pretty angry if I were you. Wait until sundown and then go get it. After all, it’s not paid for. Let me know how it goes!
First, thank you for posting all of this useful information. Like so many others who have expressed their gratitude, this is so helpful for us artists!
Now, I have a situation that I desperately need advice for. I was commisioned for a painting a little over a year ago for a client/mutual friend. The client wanted me to paint a picture for her husband for his birthday and she was giving it to him as a gift. This was my first mistake in accepting the commision. Second mistake was I didn’t set up a contract. So… She told me the colors she wanted, the composition, etc. I emailed her pictures of a sketch plan a colored sketch and she picked her favorite from the selection. I then asked for a 50% deposit which she sent and it wen through jut fine. During the painting process I emailed her pictures of the process and she responded with praise! She loved what she was seeing. I asked her to email me pictures of her living room where she wanted the piece and I made sure to incorporate colors to accent. She loved it. After completion, I emailed a picture of the final product and she said it was “beautiful.”
I then gave her the piece and she said her husband would love it. She wrote me a final check, it went through, and the painting was now hers or theirs. However, after a few weeks she emailed me and said her husband didn’t like it and she wanted a new painting without paying for it and she would return the original. I told her I couldn’t “redo” it because of my current schedule and she now demands ALL of her money back and simply wants to return the painting.
What do I do!?
Ryan, I’m sure that everyone would agree, you have completed your half of the business transaction. Print out the emails as proof of satisfaction. Politely tell her that’s not how it works. You did everything correctly (except for not having a contract) but you have a verbal agreement and email documentation. If she takes you to court, I would assume you are well covered. It’s hard on the pride and you obviously have a conscience because you are writing about it but she/they are asking too much and business is business.
Thank you Brett. That’s how I feel and a second/ third opinion Definitly helps me have more confidence in telling her that.
Ryan, even without a contract, there’s no obligation to return the customer’s money. You did the work, you put in the time, you can never get that back. If you want to meet her halfway, tell her this:
“I’m sorry you’re displeased. I would like to make it right for you. Since I’ve already put in the time and materials for the painting you purchased, I cannot refund your money. But here’s what I can do: I will put it up for sale online (via Ebay, Facebook Website, whatever works for you), and once it sells, you can ship it to the buyer and I will refund your money at that time. If you want to commission me to paint a new painting for your husband, I will be happy to do so at 10% discount. Let me know what you decide. Thank you.”
That’s how I would handle it. That way, you are trying to help, but not giving the money back.
I hope this is helpful to you!
Maria, thank you. I have thought about re-selling it and giving her the money… But not all of it! It’s a hard situation because she is a mutual friend but I have to stand my ground on this and learn from it. Thank you again for the advice and I will let you know how it turns out!
Since just starting out I am excited about my first client other than family so I find this very helpful Thank You for posting it
Refer to Thomas Payne.Use common since.
U
I LOVE YOU FOR THIS.
Its so easy to skip problems and make ourselves feel bad, but I believe we can all learn from our mistakes, and work on our self-stem, saying what we believe is right, at the end of the day, if you loose the client, then its no point of continuing, even when we re struggling with the money, or working with a famous person, I believe it all happens for a reason, and the reason is: it was not going to work anyway…
i am ready to work
Wow! you never hear this at art schools.
This is great, Maria — & exactly what I needed to read right now. Thanks so much!
When we go to major retailers, or restaurants, it is usually pay before you take. No wine is served before its time. No hair is styled before it is paid. Advance payment policy.
I haven’t not kept up with all of the posts, yet have weighed in on this thread at times.
I did tell a few clients that I required a deposit prior to beginning work and in both those cases I did lose the job. The client thought it ridiculous that I’d ask for money up front. I was actually busy with other projects, so did not feel it was a huge loss. I think it depends on the scope or length of the project as to whether milestone payments can be set up. I.E, I would never put in more than about 2 weeks of work without payment …and most people I’ve dealt with respect that and do not think it absurd.
I actually went back to full-time work after a 6 year stint of freelancing. Two factors played a role in my going full-time, 1) health care out of pocket costs for me and my family were getting too expensive. and 2) Getting ripped off by clients.
The tipping point was when over a 3 month period I had 3 clients of about 7 decide to not pay me. In the previous 6 years of freelancing I had had only 1 bad experience of not getting paid. It was all at once and just too much to deal with …so went full time. I am pretty happy not having to deal with any of this any longer.
Thought I’d share!
I had a customer buy three pieces at $500 each,paid through Paypal,,,he resold tem at a fantastic price…then 6 months later his credit card was cancelled and all funds were returned to him through paypal…they put a hold on my account and deducted the entire amount,,,I never received a response or phone call…I’m totally baffled at these credit card companies…
I love reading all of your advice! So true and great! Keep it up Maria! YOU ROCK! Aloha from Hawaii 🙂
ASH
Hi Maria, is there any chance I could pick your brain regarding a recent commission? I was asked by a company to design an illustration that was to be blown up to be used for a mural as well as prints. I was told the brief was completely open as long as it was based on a fable/myth. I researched my chosen fable and emailed a synopsis of the story along with my ideas for the illustration to the client. This was approved and a contract was drawn up.
I proceeded with generating roughs during which time the brief began to change. Eventually it became clear the brief wasn’t open at all, they had a very definite idea of what they wanted: a magical townscape. I did another couple of roughs based on what they had asked for. At this point they approved a rough for final artwork. They even went as far as to ask me to base the look of buildings on an illustration I had in my online portfolio.
I sent progress images which were also approved. The client had asked that before I sent the original artwork to their office, to email them a pic of the finished illustration in case there were any minor changes needed. I did as requested and received a reply stating that the finished illustration did not now fit with their requirements. This was surprising as the last image I sent was when the image was 70% completed and was approved by the client. They expressed a desire to continue working with me until they had a design that they could use. The email also hinted that they did not want to pay me for the work I had done as they would not be using it. I get the impression that there was a miscommunication between the person I was dealing with and their boss/creative team and the fault is now being placed with me.
I replied to the email and sent them an invoice for the completed work. I have yet to hear back from the company. I was to be paid the entire fee at the end of the project. I am covered by my contract, but I have a feeling this could be a drawn out process. I feel entitled to the full fee as I’ve spent a huge amount of my time on this project which had been given approval at both rough and progress stages. How should I proceed?
Kayvee,
I am sorry to hear what you are going through. I don’t have any “guaranteed will work advice” as to how to proceed. Yet, do you have an email or signature in writing of their approval of the initial stages? Can you show that each stage was approved, that you indeed got the go ahead to proceed?
I am always very clear up front about the process, and that I would need approval before moving on to the next stage in work. Usually an email has been sufficient, as it is a record that both parties can go back to.
Even so, I would guess that you are correct in that the person you are working for is getting new information from their boss and thus passing the pain on to you.
Not telling you to do this, but If it were me I’d send an email to your contact and your contacts boss. I’d professionally and politely state that you’ve been asked to make revisions to steps in the process after they were approved. That this is time consuming for you and is not a cost effective way to work. Keep it positive and state that you would like to continue on the project and offer if it would be helpful to sit in design meetings with the larger team, as this may help make the process more efficient? Not sure if they will be okay with this. If so at least you’ll get clearer direction from the team (not one person) and if they don’t want you to meet w/ the team then at least the boss will be clued in to what you’ve been going through. That is provided he/she is competent to care enough.
I dealt with this a few times. If you can, find good clients who have repeat projects. With murals it may be tough.
I feel your pain.
hang in there.
I hope others have some better advice.
Kayvee, I’m sorry to hear about what happened.
That’s why I harp so much about getting a deposit before starting work. If you can’t get a deposit, then a Purchase Order would be the next best thing.
How I would handle this: I would bill them for 1/2 the total. I’d drive to their offices and wait for them to cut a check. Dont’ let them get away without paying. It’s not fair.
When should the final payment be made when one is painting the mural ahead of time on sheets (metal/boards) and then installing them (part of the mural price is the installation costs)? It seems once the mural sheets are installed and the mural is completed, then it is possible they might not pay the final half of their bill. How do you solve this?
cnut, make sure you get 50% up front, and then do the work. Make it clear in your written agreement that the final payment is due at completion. Remind your customer, before you install it, that you will expect payment once it’s installed. I never had a problem with a customer not paying at the end. I make sure I remind them, “please have the final balance of $xxxx in an envelope for me.”
Ukash scams. Con artist are using a new con. They tried it on me, but after a few hours I figured out what these two-bit low life scum were up to. Let me explain how you are victimized. These losers infect your computer with virusesand use Cheshire police or some legit police organization marquee and cite ordinances and laws you have violated; they give you €100 or whatever equal amount in sterling or dollar term. You have 48 hours grace period to pay ransom and then your computer will be unlocked. You can do this on your own, by switching off your computer improperly. When you switch on computer again, you will be asked to turn on your computer, do so by utilizing the Safe mode command prompt, your computer will do a systems check be patient. You have a few seconds to type in explore, then on next prompt type rstui.exe, on next prompt which computer asks if you want to restore your computer to factory settings. Mostly the clock will go back a few days before hand. Your files and pictures and other personal stuff is un affected. My suggestion to avoid such a scenario again, is to download Anvi Defender as well as maleware bye, both are free; this should stop these yutzes in there tracks, save you money and if this pisses these asses off, that’s a bonus. Any questions, call me at 087 291 2256 or at my e-mail which is mikephyde@yahoo.ie
Hi Maria,
I just stumbled upon your great site – I learned so much by reading only this post of yours , and I intend to read more on your site! Thank you so much for this wealth of very useful info!
I am a beginning artist freelancer. I am designing greeting cards and stationary. A company wants me to send them hard copies of my designs. If they like them, they told me, they will ask me to send them my portfolio. My fear is that when/if I mail them hard copies of my greeting card designs, they can misuse/steel/ rip off, even if I put the copyright clause on them. I think you had a similar question here by Sarah, but she was asking about her portfolio. You replied advising her to send portfolio of a low resolution. Should I do the same with my card designs? But it it’s low resolution prints, how will they see all the ritchness of the original art work? I guess my question is – should I send low resolution copies? What would be your advice – how to protect my work from being stolen by them even in this pre-portfolio phase?
Many thanks for your insight, I immenselly appreciate it, and I’m so glad I stumbled upon your site.
RED FLAG #1: This “company” is asking for your hard copy greeting card designs B E F O R E they’ve seen your portfolio!?! Send them your portfolio first. If they like your work you could set up a work order for your greeting card designs with a sizable advance. But as someone who has been in the business for over 20 years, this company is dead set on ripping off your artwork. I’ve seen it before, even been lured into the same situation years back. Don’t even send them your lo res JPEGs because it is the IDEAS they are really looking for. Sad but true.
J.P., thanks a lot for your reply and insights, I appreciate it. Just one more thing, if you have a minute to reply: two other greeting card companies that I found on their websites list their submission guidelines and they also ask for card samples as well, they don’t even mention portfolio (“if we like your designs, we’ll contact you”). Seems to be a standard “procedure”. Do you think all of these companies might be onto ripping people’s ideas off? Their websites seem legitimate, with lots of cards on sale, displayed. Again, many thanks for your reply, and again, I’m a total rookie in this, sorry if these questions sound silly.
Dear DoDa. I think in cases where greeting card companies ask for card samples in their submission guidelines, they are asking for your best samples from your portfolio and not original samples pertaining to something where a company can use your idea or actual files. That’s the difference. In any case it’s always a good idea to add a copyright symbol or even a watermark to ensure the prospective buyers that you are the owner of these images. Hope this helps.
J.P., it helps a lot, thank you again and kind regards!
I had to laugh at this: I read somewhere once that the definition of crazy person is: Someone who keeps doing the same thing over and over again but expecting a different result! I thought that was called “Fishing”.
Hi Maria,
Thanks for this, a lot of thought went into it! I really appreciate your thoughts, and makes me feel good knowing I do roughly the same thing.
I’ve been a designer for 15yrs now and have been a freelancer for 1.5yrs. Ive always done the 50% upfront 50% on completion, but found that clients don’t always want to pay the second 50% on time, pay the right amout (try to renegotiate), or pay at all.
I got so fed up with it that myself and a few amazing IT security expert friends came up with a way to stop this problem and help us freelancers. It’s http://www.promisepay.com and its a milestone based payment service that collects money from clients before work starts and then pays designers as soon as the work is finished.
Would love to talk to you more about it if you’re interested?
Daz,
Thanks for the comment. I think it’s very easy to prevent a client from not paying the remaining balance – you do 2 things to keep that from happening:
1 – The contract you sign with them should specify that the final payment is due upon completion, and no later then 15 days from the date the art is finished. After that, 1-1/2% is charged on top of the balance due.
2 – Don’t give them the high res or original art until after you cash their check or receive payment.
Promise Pay sounds like a good idea – I checked out your link. But, I don’t think I’d ever use it because I never have a problem getting payment when I follow my 50% down 50% at completion rule. It works 100% of the time!
Maria, another great read. Thank you.
I’ve recently had a problem dealing with a family member. She wanted me to do a Christmas gift for her daughter with their last name, etc. on a canvas. Her daughter wanted me to do a digital design in-stead of painting it. She told me she will print it out on a canvas when I was done. The price that she told me would be 65 dollars, well now that I am asking for the money she now tells me that the price was including the canvas. I told her we never discussed that. I am sure now she will try to pay a cheaper price and I don’t know how to get around this! What should I do? I’m I wrong on this?
Dear Chantel, I’m sorry you are dealing with this. It’s frustrating. But, you could have easily avoided this by setting a price that is fair to you. Never let your customer (even a family member) determine how much you will charge. Learn from this, and from this point forward, tell any customer (even family!) what the price will be. Write it on a piece of paper, ask them for 50% deposit to cover your up front expenses, and then make sure you get full payment when it’s finished. You will never, ever, have this problem again!
Hello Maria, We agreed upon the price up front, so I don’t know why she is trying to get out of it now. I am defiantly going to start doing that. In fact I have a logo design that I am working on and I just set down with them to go over the 50% up front. I was just wondering if I was wrong to ask for the 65 dollars since we never discussed whether the canvas was included or not?
Chantel, I’m not clear on what happened here. Did you give her a price, and then later add $65 to it? If you did that, then I think you shouldn’t have. It’s best to give one price, up front, so the buyer has no surprises later. Whatever price the two of you agreed upon is the price that she should pay.
There was no change of the price. The one she found to give me an example of what she wanted was set at 65. She told me that she would pay me that price if I made it for my cousin (of course in my own style.) I told 65 would be fine. That has been from the beginning and hasn’t changed, until I sent her an email of the finish product.
WOW informitive blog, I been riped off lots of times.. Bad checks, stolen credit cards, sheisters, that say the check is in the mail. Love all the content I have read in your blog. I just want to get my work out there on Skateboards could you do a blog on how? Thanks
I own a t-shirt business. I want to commission an artist to design several ideas I have for t-shirts. I am in touch with an artist to pay him a commission for the labor and skill. The artist wants to retain ownership of the orginial art, but states my company would own the rights to use the art for the shirts, and that he would not use the art for anything but portfolio purposes.
Why would an artist not want to sign over the rights to the original artwork if they agree only to use the art for portfolio use?
Am I unreasonable for asking for the rights to the original artwork?
We have offered an $800 good faith deposit for 3 works with a total of 10 to be completed by the end of the year.
Dear Roth-co.Inc, thanks for the comment on my blog post, and your question.
The reason an artist would want to retain copyrights is so that they can maintain control over their identity, which is their art. An artists’ art and style is very much like their logo. They must maintain control over it at all times.
Also, should the artist wish to use the art for anything else in the future, for non-competing projects, they can.
It’s in an artists’ best interest to keep their copyrights. In the case of licensing their art to you for use on t-shirts; there is no reason to sell all rights to the designs when they are only being used for t-shirts for a short period of time.
Why don’t you do this: Ask the artist to sign an exclusive license agreement, stating that the artist won’t license the artwork to another t-shirt manufacturer for 3 years. That way, you won’t have to worry about competitors getting the designs, and the artist gets to keep his copyrights. It’s win win for both sides. That’s typically how it’s done in art licensing.
I am considering that. This is a very new artist, I see the potential in their work. We offered to pay double on the amount they initially quoted.
Also, I am offering the vision and insight for each design (we know what we want, we simply need someone to bring it to fruition) so, minimally, I feel like we could be co-owners of the copyright (or do you not see it this way. Why or Why not?)
If she is willing to sign an exclusive agreement, I am fine with her retaining the copyright.
We are starting out with t-shirts and depending on the success this may evolve (posters, art print). We don’t want to limit ourselves.
I am tempted to suggest a work for hire agreement. What do you think?
Again, we have a vision. If the artist came up with an original concept, we would have no problem; however, if they base the art on our vision, we feel like we should at least be entitled to half the copyright.
I look forward to your insight and your reply.
There are two ways to work the copyrights with an artist:
1 – Where they keep their copyrights and simply give you limited rights to use it for a specific time period and usage on specific products.
or
2 – Where you have them sign a Work for Hire Agreement, which gives you the ownership to all copyrights.
There is no one right way to do it; but both sides have to agree on how it’s done!
Many artists who are building a name for themselves do not want to sign away their copyrights. And I think that’s a good thing for them to hold onto.
However, there are illustrators out there who are somewhat anonymous artists and who are happy to sign Work for Hire agreements.
If you have a vision for a line of clothing and other products with these designs that you have came up with, and you plan to use the designs for more then just t-shirts for a limited time, then you may want to find an artist that is an illustrator that does Work for Hire work.
Since it’s your concepts and vision, and you wish to take the art much further then t-shirts, it would make sense to have an artist sign a work for hire agreement.
OR: If you are set on using this one artist, and she’s not willing to sign a Work for Hire agreement, then ask her for a very generous license that gives you a long time period to use the art and for multiple products.
I do believe that these things can be worked out, when both parties get what is really important to them.
I hope this info is helpful to you!
The information you have provided is very helpful. I will go forward with these options.
Hopefully the artist is willing to compromise. I don’t want to seem unreasonable, I want the agreement to work for all parties.
I will bookmark this blog. Thanks!!
Thanks. Was feeling really angry about being ripped off before this but i left myself open and it was only a few hours. Glad i read this blog before getting shafted again.
I have a question if you could help its much appreciated.
If an artist is hired by a company to do a drawing or illustration. everything is well drawing done and paid for. Who owns the drawing? Can the company use the drawing for merchandise such as t-shirts, coffee mugs etc? Is there special permission needed to be acquired from the artist first?
Thanks
Dear Leo,
Thanks for the great question!
Every deal is different. Many artists will create art for a client, and allow the client to use the art for a specific use and for a time period, but the artist will keep the ownership to the copyrights.
When the artist keeps the (c) ownership, they then can license that same art to other companies for other products, or they can produce the products themselves.
The artist never needs permission, but the client does. A proper agreement will state that the artist is giving the client a limited license to use the art for a specific product, for a specified time period.
The artist automatically owns all copyrights to art, unless they sign the copyrights away to a client.
I hope this info answers your questions!
Thanks for the good strong talk. This gave me a bit of a reality check.
I am too often too gentle and let a lot of stuff pass.
These suggestions apply to all sort of business (mine being software development – http://www.HalcyonLogic.com).
From time to time, I get a customer that asks for the moon, the moon gets delivered but the payment is slow to come.
Fortunately, I have more customers that do appreciate my work and pay on time.
I will review my payments policy.
Have a great day and don’t let these situations bring you down.
Cheers,
Richard.
Nice article and such a good information.
I’m thrilled that I’ve found this website. You cannot imagine how informative this site has been to me, I feel like I have unlocked the key to my success. The reason for this is the way things are explained, in a way completely in tune with my preferred way of taking guidance and instruction. You’ve answered some key questions I had, yet had no one to ask and covered every aspect I could ask for. I had a meeting this morning to put forward ‘my’ proposal for doing a mural near a soon to be demolished estate. Though I did not have to get into pricing as yet, I was able to secure a positive second meeting and preliminary plans due to the proposal, which was greatly helped by me trawling your website throughout the early hours of this morning. You’ve given me a good foundation in truly making my art a business. (I will be recommending this site) Thank You Maria
Thanks Jon for the best compliment ever! 🙂
thank you thank you thank you so much for this. I thought i had to figure it out all on my own. i am now going to be able to make a living.
I’ve been up for hours researching your knowledge…
Great post. As a writer, the problem for me has been collecting the final 50% after the work is completed and delivered (can’t really take a picture of a writing project). It’s become exhausting chasing final payments, so I’ve decided to only send a locked PDF of the material until I receive payment, at which point I will send the Word version. Will see how that goes for the next project…
I live in usa and life is worth living comfortably for me and my family now and really have never seen goodness shown to me this much in my life as I have been going through a problem as seriously as my son found a terrible accident last two weeks, and the doctors states that he needs to undergo a delicate surgery for him to be able to walk again and I could not pay the bills, then your surgery went to the bank to borrow and reject me saying that I have no credit card, from there i run to my father and he was not able to help, then when I was browsing through yahoo answers and i came across a loan lender MR TONY HARTON, offering loans at affordable interest rate and i have been hearing about so many scams on the internet but at this my desperate situation, I had no choice but to give it an attempt and surprisingly it was all like a dream, I got a loan of $ 50,000 and I paid for my son surgery and thank God today is good and you can walk and is working and the burden is longer so much on me more and we can feed well and my family is happy today and i said to myself that I will mourn aloud in the world of the wonders of God to me through this lender GOD fearing MR TONY HARTON and I would advise anyone in genuine and serious need of loan to contact this God-fearing man on financialhome34@outlook.com through .. and I want you all to pray for this man for me
Thank you
I have been doing freelance work for some time now and I had an issue with getting ripped off by a family member. It was a small commission so that was their reasoning not to give me a deposit. I told them I would not begin doing work until I had received a deposit. They refused and I ended up not doing the commission.
In the past, I had worked on a website for them that ended up not being used. They insisted that I show them a “prototype” of the website that I was going to build them. So I made one and they liked it but they didn’t have the money to pay me. In the end, they didn’t get the login info and I didn’t get paid.
Love your articles, really helpful! I’ll try to practice my new “business woman behavior”;), it’s not easy but I’m gonna make it …thank you <3
Hi Maria,
Thank you so much for sharing, I read your article on -.. how to never get ripped off again ….. and I believe that the suggestions presented are valuable and work. I am an artist and a human being and thanks for showing us this way. Work is necessary to create the platform for art and to share it. This has given me the insight that it is up to me to create the art and the platform and that working in what I love is possible. Namaste, Love and Light Happiness M
Thank you, your words & information has helped me realize that I do deserve to be paid for my time. I just had a recent client cut down my best work all because they didn’t want to pay me. They made me wait & tried to intimidate me while I literally stood & waited for payment. I cut them a break, gave them a great deal, didn’t ask for a deposit, and didn’t have them sign a contract, which I should of because it was a significant amount of work & my time. Which I now have learned from my mistake. I will forever get a deposit & a contract signed. Thank you for your pointers & letting me know I’m not the only freelance visual artist that has ever run into this issue. I was feeling inadequate & the situation of the client cutting down my work & reluctant to pay, has be interfering with my sleep the last couple weeks. I did however get payment. So I’m lucky I guess, considering what I’ve read about so many other artists being ripped off & not receiving payment. Thank you so much for all your shared info, I truly appreciate it!! Have a wonderful day!
my work is taking money out of my check for medical insurance every two weeks $74 it has been 2 months and I have not received any medical insurance or medical card or a packet..the first time I called the insurance company they stated to me that I was not insured through their company and I would have to bring it up with my boss…after talking to my boss she states that I am insured and if I have any medical issues problems and I need to go to the doctors to pay for the bill myself and I will be reimbursed on that to save all receipt…please help me I don’t know what to do I’m being ripped off and charge for medical insurance which I don’t have and I don’t know what to do please help
Just delivered a promotional video for a local “feller” (seen the Swedish movie Switchblade, Uhuuhh?) Last week. He gave me all the “tears and whistles” about how he would pay $2500.00 “now” and $2500.00 later after his Kick-starter promotion “paid off”. stories of how “everyone else” had asked for $10000.00 and so forth . . Well the guy still hasn’t posted his promo video and it’s not like he didn’t love it. One evening before our last edit , or finishing post touches (yes he was there with me) we “hung” out over some hot dogs and a couple of drinks on our property. As he was eager to display how pleased he was with my freelance work on my own “promo” video (yup). Called the guy’s voice mail Three times this past week without any replies, so this week I’m calling an attorney to find out my chances in an US small claims court.
It’s strange how individual professionals, owning their own factory, actually earn an income working their business have no second thought about messing with a 6.5 tall / 380 Lbs Swedish Ogre or Viking. I wasn’t born nor educated in the US (TG) so this “freakishness” really means War because I’m a REAL artist, and you know what “they” say about messing with true artists.. 😀
Sir Carl..
Actually it’s 280 Lbs my wife tells me, oh well.. Like I used to tell my 2’nd X wife.. – I’m NOT perfect, but I’m CLOSE.. 😀
Sir Carl..
I have a question. What about if you paint a mural and get stiffed on the balance due? Or if they keep saying “soon, soon”. How do you not hand over their wall that is in their house?
Another question. I was working on a portrait and did not take a deposit and he wanted updates in the form of photos so I sent him a photo and he said it didn’t look like the pic and canceled it. Now I don’t send updates till it’s finished because fear of pulling out. I do currently charge 50% deposit (learned my lesson) but I’m thinking if he had paid a deposit then when I gave him the update he may not have pulled out and canceled it? What are your thoughts? I think photograph updates would be nice to send but it scares me from my past experience.
Awesome post Maria.
I am concept artist. Just wanted the perfect professional procedure in dealing with client.
Thanks a ton.
This is very helpful to me.
I find working through online freelancer websites such as CatchUpNews.org solves problems with payments. The site require deposit prior to the start of a job which is held in escrow. Worth checking them out.
I appreciate your article as a small business entrepreneur who has successfully fought for deposits. However what I don’t see is advise for the small business who gives deposit to an artist and he/she fails to respond to texts, calls, request for proof of work started. Right now she’s using a health issu as an excuse, but it’s been weeks. Ive asked her repeatedly if she’s not up for it, no harm no foul, just forfeit the deposit. What are my options? I’ve shared original content with her for an idea, and I don’t know what my next course of action should be.
Erica,
Thanks for your comment and question. Yes, sadly, this does happen sometimes. It happened to me a few years ago – gave an artist $2,500 deposit for a $5K project. He didn’t do it. Worse part – I knew him personally!
To answer your question – Give her a deadline. She must have a draft to you no later than Oct 25th. If she does not come through, then you expect full refund on that date. If she doesn’t refund or come through with the work, then you have to file in small claims court, or just let it go.
Sorry this is happening to you. 🙁
Thanks a lot maria. Great post. Very helpful for the beginners into the freelancing world.
BTW i am a technical writer and a photographer with 6+ years of experience. Anyone needing the services may get in touch with me.
Great post! Just what I needed to word my proposal for a corporate gig coming up. I look forward to reading more of your material.
Thank you Maria. You helped me a lot.
YOUR CLIENT IS A HUGE 5 BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY AND THEY TAKE 3 WEEKS TO CUT CHECKS BUT NEED YOU TO FINISH IN 2 WEEKS: I’ve been faced with this scenario a few times. Here’s what I do: I ask the client to write me a personal check and they can bill their company for it later. Some people laugh at that, but the serious ones send me their personal check.
THIS is exactly what I needed to hear today! Thank you! They think bc the cheque is on it’s way, then all is good, but it isn’t not when you are working at zero and they want the job done last week and promised you the deposit- until corporate got involved and said here is the cheque number, its being processed. In my mind I stop the press and wait to receive in my hands and go focus on making money today elsewhere. Until now they ask.. where is the work you promised- and I have to reply- I still have not received the deposit. The comeback you mentioned asking to pay me personally and they can get it back on their end later is a great idea and also shows that I am serious. If it is good enough for the geese, it is good enough for the gander.. Thanks Maria again for reminding me and others of our self worth and to keep pushing forward 🙂 G
Glad you liked it! Another way they can send the money is by bank wire transfer. Many larger companies do this regularly, and they prefer it. The great thing is that most wire transfers go through immediately. (Unless it’s sent from out of the country). Paypal is instant, and that’s always my preference, but, most big companies don’t use Paypal.
Yah, I know I offered that as well wire. My last client paid wire transfer. This particular company I offered cash wire or paypal and did not respond, so I just created a paypal link they could use until they responded. Anyways update- squashed that one. Getting deposit was too much and making me nervous. Thanks again for your reply! HUGS!!
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Thanks Maria. I am in a situation with an agency right now where their deadline was 1 week from the date they decided to contract me. I quickly sent over an invoice and revisions to their contract but their internal process is so slow that I had to start the work. I told myself, I’ll create the work and not release it until I have a deposit. They’ve tried to sway me a couple of times to see the concepts, but I told them it is my policy to not release artwork until I have a deposit. They’ve been understanding and it looks like I’ll be getting a credit card payment just in time to meet their deadline. It is a tricky situation because the delays don’t leave much room for revisions but hopefully it will all work out.
Hi Sam,
Don’t worry about their deadline until they send the deposit. If it’s a huge concern for them, they will over night or Fed Ex you a check. I’ve had many companies do that for me. Or, process their credit card number immediately, before working on sketches. Either way, if they have a quick deadline, they will find a way to pay you quick!
I have a policy in business and my personal life. I never take on someone else’s problems. If a large company has a deadline but they can’t get you the money in time, that’s their problem, it’s their deadline, not yours. Maybe making them solve their own problem will encourage them to create better processes so it won’t happen again for them in future. Since implementing this policy into my life, I live quite stress free. I also find, I rarely attract to me those types of people or business anymore.
Hi Maria,
Great article!
How about other way around? I have ordered the artwork, paid the deposit, artist finished it and sent it for reviewing but liked it so much that wants to increase the price and even after 30% increase is not willing to sell it to me???
Also not wanting to return the deposit!
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Kind regards,
Helin
Sorry thought I might add that after signing the contract, we changed to color technique but after the artwork was ready artist asked to keep the original, also sell prints and canvas of the work as well.
At first we had in an agreement that after payment and completion we have all the rights for the work as it is commission work.
Thank you!
Helin, I’m sorry you’re having this trouble! Whatever the contract states is what you and the artist agreed to, and that is what needs to be done.
That’s why a contract is so important . If your artist is breaching the contract, then you have to either work it out with them or seek legal help and take them to small claims court or sue to enforce the agreement.
This actually answered my drawback, thank you!
In the three years of building my career as an artist I’ve made mistakes of doing murals without asking for a deposit. I’ve been ripped off before with sketches I wasn’t paid for. Lesson learned!
Now a question I have is: what if you have the client sign an agreement that clearly states the full payment for the entire project (sketches and so on) is due upon completion?
I mean if they can’t give a deposit because of a policy their company has, which is a situation that happened to me last year, couldn’t signing the agreement be another way to get them commited to the project?
If they don’t pay up could you point out that they signed an agreement that would be escalated to legal action?
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